Hey there everybody, it's Audie, this is the Assignment, and these days politics, you know, it feels…unserious, until it becomes deadly serious.

I'm here at the White House Correspondents dinner, just a few minutes ago, at the start of the program, after the colors, after the Pledge of Allegiance, we were all eating salads, listening to the preliminary speeches, when all of a sudden, from the back of the room, people were getting up from their tables and running.

I didn't record video, but this audio is from table 109 of the White House Correspondents' Dinner. And next to me, like crouched down in a tux was Shane McMahon, former wrestler of WWE family fame, which is why Washington can be so surreal. Like this weekend in general can be so surreal where the line blurs between serious politics and unserious pop culture.

So I was not at the White House Correspondents' Dinner. Neither were my colleagues. I was actually at the Substack Party, where there were a lot of new media.

'I want to introduce you to Jacob Wasserman. He's co-managing editor of TMZ DC. Yes, that TMZ, the Hollywood tabloid.

It feels a little surreal, right? I mean, here's the president about to be an attempted assassination, and the party kind of goes on.

TMZ has been in Washington, officially here, for less than a month, making those blurred lines even more blurry. And Jacob, he's going through a bit of a culture shock. So as we were talking, we actually moved on pretty quickly from last weekend's events, you know, kind of like Washington itself, but we did swap notes. He's in the middle of a crash course about power and the political press, and then I asked him what I need to know. As the assignment is about to evolve into something new. So stay with us.

Jacob, I'm glad you're here because, not just because your mom listens, though that's amazing, but because I had always billed The Assignment as a show that talks about pop culture and politics, but from the political side. I'm a person who's like, I look at a thing that's happening out in the world, and then I say to myself, okay, what is the politics of this? What is the thing that seems to be driving the sentiment? I'm actually now moving the show into covering more pop culture. So I was like, it's kind of interesting to talk to Jacob who's doing the opposite.

Yeah.

You're coming to the dark side. What are we doing? Why are we trading places?

'Yeah, I didn't really think of it like that. That's a good point. I mean, in some ways though, it's not that, it's kind of the same. Like, you're still going-.

Totally, totally.

Yeah, so many people have been asking me, like, how are you approaching this, like, differently than your traditional news coverage? And it's like, there is no difference. It's the exact same. We're dealing with a bunch of characters. It's all about making relationships and trying to build trust with people. And in terms of our reporting, it's the same news gathering process. So different subjects, but same process.

People love you guys. Like it's really over the top. Like the journalists are like, welcome. The lawmakers are like hi, local teens. Like everybody is really into it. I'll give you my theory about what's behind that. Then you give me yours, okay? Cause I used to cover Congress. So I've walked the same little hallways and tunnels that you've done. I think that for a time we all thought with Trump that we had reached the end of scandal. There was no way you could shame a lawmaker anymore because you couldn't shame a presidential candidate, you know, when the like, grab them by the ex video came out and the ex wives or whatever it is, there was a sense that like, the average person doesn't care about this anymore. And the average lawmaker thinks they can always ride it out. So I have to admit, I think one of the reasons why we're all stoked that you're here. Is because it's like, well, wait a second. Is the system not broken the way we thought? Like, are people out there mad enough that TMZ can unearth things and talk about things that we had just given up on talking about? Because it just really didn't seem to click as a problem.

Yeah. And you know, maybe it opens the door for other journalists to participate. Maybe when TMZ opens it. Yeah, I totally get what you mean. I mean, the press corps has been amazing so far. When we're roaming the halls, it feels like, you know when I was like in high school and I would see a freshman lost and I was a senior, I'd be like, go that way. And that's what I'm getting a lot of people and beyond that. It's like people are DMing me recommendations on where to eat around town. And hey, you know, this, I don't know if you saw this tweet but this might be something that you wanna look into.

That's what I mean, right? That's the kind of thing where you send that tweet to your editor and they're like, yeah, okay, great. You have to file on this bill, blah, blah blah blah, and so you don't send it. You don't really do anything with it. And sometimes if you do do something with it, the audience is like, oh, that's partisan that you're pointing this out. Like you guys somehow have a freedom, I think. That's my perception.

Yeah, well, I mean, our goal is that would definitely to be nonpartisan. I mean we are we are working with both sides of the aisle.

'Well, in fairness, Harvey's I'll just mention Harvey's during the during the shutdown with the airports. He said that he said, quote, We're sick of the way they are patronizing us talking about lawmakers. And he was talking about his movement out with their asses. O-W-T-A. It's it's it is nonpartisan, but it also has a point of view. And the point of you actually reflects something in the political culture with voters, which is like. They're anti-incumbents, you know, there's like, everywhere you go, it's throw the bums out. But I don't know, yeah, who they want in.

I've been meeting with everyone on both sides of the aisle and people, again, have been reaching out to us, looking to me, get coffee, have a better understanding of who I am and my colleagues are. And we're trying to build our relationships based off being fair. With that, we also do invoke a point of view. And I think maybe when you see some of the walk and talk conversations that we with people we don't have them maybe in a conventional way but maybe the same type of way that you would have with someone at a bar or someone at town hall meeting where yeah we're talking about the issues but we like to push back and play kind of a contrarian and I think through that you get a better conversation and a better understanding of who these people are and maybe where they're coming from.

'One example of that, which I had mixed feelings about, so I want to talk to you about it, is when you were in the Pentagon briefing and you were asking Pete Hegseth, the defense secretary, was it you or was it your co-editor?

Yeah, it was both of us.

It was both of you. And one of the questions you were asking was essentially, how does it feel to make the call, right, to make a call of a missile strike? And you asked it in a way that Hegseth kind of welcomed. It was like, he was kind of like, that's interesting. That's a good question, you know, because you're like the feeling in your body, like what's going on. But then when I look at the headline on TMZ, it says, do you get off on dropping bombs? As though that was the question that was asked. Which he would not have answered. So I do see you guys still having to play the same game we all have to play, where you have people of high status who expect to be treated a certain way.

I think in terms of the headline, you know, we sometimes will write headlines in a colloquial style...

Yeah, this is very colloquial.

Yes, as part of our—

Do you get off on dropping parts? It's extremely colloquial. Well, I'm pointing it out, but it's like it's a good example of the reality of coverage versus the reality of the market and the media approach you're actually from.

'I think part of the reason why we're here and maybe part of our purpose is we want to take a step back. I think talking about the issues, of course, is essential. And the media that exists on the Hill does an incredible job, I mean, really digging into the news of the day and providing their audience with the well-informed details of what's going on on various issues. I think a lot of, we live in a country where so many people are politically disengaged and have no idea what's going on and maybe can hardly wrap the idea, their head around the idea that we're in a war with Iran. So I think what we're trying to show is who are these people? We want to pull back a curtain a little bit. And in terms of that question, the question was about, you know, here you have this responsibility. You have this immense level of power. How do you feel about it? How do, you talk a lot about bombing people. You know, I mean, that's like as serious as it gets. Who is this person that's making this call? How do they experience it? And I mean you kind of sidestep the question, but I think when we see-.

Yeah, welcome to Washington.

Yeah, no, understood. But when we people out on the hill, I think we're coming with a similar approach. We wanna understand who these people are.

You've had to answer the question multiple times about whether or not TMZ pays for tips. Because the public understanding of this is that TMZ will pay people for what they call assets. So video, maybe that somebody has taken. Here in Washington, there are some pretty serious legal barriers to doing things like that. How do you think about that process in this environment? We're taking a video and selling that video like has different implications.

Yeah.

Than someone standing outside of LAX, do you know what I mean? Sure. Or standing outside a nightclub.

Sure, well, yeah, to answer the question, TMZ is not paid for tips in terms of information. Like that is something that is 100% false, that I think is peddled sometimes to just discredit us in terms what we do pay for. We do pay photos and we pay for videos, but the same way that other news outlets do too. I mean, for example, if you are a TV news network. And you want to use a Getty photo, or not even TV, any news network. I mean, that costs money if you use a getty photo. So if someone has a photo and we want to buy it, I don't see the difference between what's wrong there. Of course we have our lines and there are plenty of things that we would never publish that some people might think we would. I'm learning here in DC.

Like what?

Things that are just far too salacious and sensitive.

Like what?

Uh, things that are, I don't, I don't have like a specific example that I necessarily want to share.

Like affairs? Like, yeah, I'm trying to understand what's too salacious in this day and age.

Everything we do is a judgment call. And it's not something that I just make independently. You know, we have an incredible team in Los Angeles full of veteran news producers, Harvey Levin, Charles, these are people who have been working in news for decades. So we all work in a cohesive way. And whenever we deal with a story that is sensitive, we review it all together. So it's a case by case basis. And that's why when you were asking, you know, what specifically. It's like there's a lot of different things that come across our desk. And ultimately it's like, we just have to make a judgment call. And sometimes we give it the green light. Sometimes we say, no, you know, it's not for us.

I don't mean to henpeck you. I think the reason why I'm asking this is like, when I was your age, I remember I was covering John Edwards' campaign in North Carolina, and I was standing in a political scrum, and someone asked him whether he was having an affair. And he just looked dead at the whole group and said, that's tabloid trash. And everyone just kind of let it go. It was like, okay, that is not our job. That's the job of this other, you know, in the end, it was the National Enquirer, and they were correct. But I think, like, maybe I'm poking at you a little because I'm like, wait, are you guys going to go after the stuff that the lawmakers are dismissive of? Tell us not to ask about, try and judge us for being curious about, like, do you guys not have the baggage we have about some of these questions? And do you have knowledge we don't have about how to cover a story like that?

Well, I don't think we're afraid to ask the big questions. There is like an elephant in a room. We're not afraid to asked it. I mean, we asked RFK the other day what his fascination was with roadkill, which I mean that was a pretty direct question.

Yeah. Yeah, and we would like to know. Yeah, so it's like.

Yeah, so it's like, so I don't know if like maybe other outlets would be as comfortable asking that and that clip got a lot of attention, you know, because again, people are curious. So in that regard, no, I don t we're not scared or not scared. We're not, uh, yeah, not timid to ask a question that people are burning or that people want to know.

Okay, after the break, Jacob is going to get to ask me his burning questions about DC's, you know, quirks.

What do you wanna know, since you've had a couple weeks now, you've been wandering around, what have you wanted to ask of other reporters?

Or whatever you want it to know. That's a good question. Why does Twitter hold so much social currency here? I understand that news funnels on Twitter, but I think it's a little disturbing just how much value plays on what you tweet. And again, hand up, I'm tweeting now.

You are tweeting now!

But but but because I've quickly learned that it's almost like you have to, in order to gain credibility in a lot of people's eyes. You just mentioned a cupcake tweet for those unfamiliar. I, as a joke, I did not really tweet at all before I came to DC two weeks ago, yesterday. And it was clear to me that, yeah, people really value what you tweet. So as a Joke, I guess a week or so ago, I went to a popular bagel place called Call Your Mother, and it was clearly, I'd never heard of it before, but the line was very long. And the whole thing I've gathered about Twitter is it's about who can say the wittiest remark wins. So I just tweeted, you know, hey, don't any of you guys have ever heard of this place called Call your Mother, they make a great bagel sandwich. And it was like. People were losing their mind. It got over a million views. It was trending. And I'm like, I thought this was clearly a joke, but again.

And everyone thought, they were like, TMZ doesn't know about our favorite bagel place.

Yeah, I'm like, and then and then again, at the same time, I have people who I've met now on the hill, texting me saying great tweet, man. That was hilarious. And then and I'm at the White House Correspondence Center parties this weekend, and people are coming up to me like, oh, the bagel guy. That was so funny. Oh my, I can't believe people were falling for it.

'Okay, let me answer your question. First of all, I'm glad you're saying this out loud because I think people are under the impression that after Elon Musk took over Twitter, there was a mass exodus. There was a massive exodus, but I still see plenty of journalists on it and very much doing the thing you said. I also like you saying out loud something a lot of us know as journalists that is frustrating, which is that the people you're dealing with, your sources sort of think you're not a real person that they need to deal with. Unless you're using this particular microphone, the microphone that is Twitter. And so even if that's like not your MO, as you said, people, they're following you. They wanna know what you've been saying. They're judging who you are in the way somebody would be looking at a resume. I mean, it's actually pretty intense. The one thing I'll say for it that is, it's grip on Washington is that the ecosystem, the media ecosystem of Washington is 1,000 little newsrooms and 1,00 little legislative offices. It's like carpenter ants. I mean, it's like you are in a ant colony. And something Twitter did was all of a sudden it put us all in the same space at the same time. Because when I first started on it, it was literally like, hey, who's gonna drink at so-and-so? And like three people would reply, right? Just like everyone on Twitter. And then somehow it became an actual political platform to the point now where we have our first Twitter president, right? Like we have someone who fundamentally understood the platform so well that like, that's how he's conducting foreign policy, like, you know, the, the propaganda, all of that stuff that happens between Trump and Iran or whatever, it's like still happening on Twitter or Twitter, like apps. I think part of it is it's a weird kind of social glue, so that someone who has no opportunity to meet you or get that contact with you can. And they have an excuse to talk to you once they meet you. Bagel guy? Let's talk, right? Like it is this weird, it is the literal water cooler.

I think that's a really good way of putting it. And I—

But I'm glad you're freaked out by it. I'm glad that you're just like people

That was one of my, yeah, if you, you guys know what one of my biggest questions was this, it's like, that's it. And at the same time, I feel like I've met people in passing who have told me that part of their job on the Hill is to like monitor social media.

One hundred percent.

And I'm not calling for their job, but I'm like, everyone is monitoring social media. If there is an article that comes out by any outlet, it seems like it's going directly in people's brains and they are processing it very quickly. Why do we need a job that's designated to monitoring social when that's all people are doing?

'Well, I think it's because they're so worried about scandal. I mean, they're worried about ending up on TMZ. They're worried, and this is not this TMZ, this version. Basically, the attitude is, it's one thing to be in Hill Publications or the Washington Post is covering you. But if your scandal crosses over somehow over this invisible fence to the broader culture, you're in a full-blown crisis. And I think that they are constantly worried about scandal and crisis, briefly cancelation, but I think, that's over. And they're constantly in a state of like reputation management.

'Mm-hmm.

That feels like doesn't make any sense in this day and age, but is meaningful to them. Their reputation is their public currency.

But in the past 10 years, right? We've seen how people are above scandals and how, you know, yeah, exactly. People are above canceling. And maybe sometimes you can get a bad story written about you, but you can parlay it into some momentum that can be beneficial to you. So why do you think what we've this, given what we have learned in the last decade, Why do you think there's so many people who work in communications on Capitol Hill that are so risk averse? In my mind, maybe they should be leaning into it a little bit.

Listen, you've learned a lot in two weeks, okay?

'A hundred percent. But it's like, I wish maybe we lived in a world where people voted for different politicians and candidates based off policies and their ideas and their experience, but I think a lot of people are just voting on who can hang, who do you like, you know, they seem cool. And it's like, if you know that, and it's clearly a factor in elections, why not just chop it up with TMZ for a few minutes on the Hill? And you know what? A lot of people already are. And we don't have to go up to people and say, hey, can I talk to you for a second? We're two weeks in now and we have people on both sides of the aisle spotting us and saying, hey I want to talk about this. Let's talk about, this talk to my comm's person or I want to talk about X, Y, and Z because they see it as an asset and we're going to talk about all different types of things. We talk about pop culture, we talk about your personal life. And again, maybe things about your DC life. And what comes with that, pulling back the current a bit, and then also with serious issues too. If I can hit on all three of those in like a two-minute conversation or so, I'd see that as a great, great conversation for me, and I think it's good for them too. So it's a unique opportunity and one that I think is a good one for them.

Now hearing you, I'm like, what advice do you have for me? Because those are also my goals, but I usually don't do them in two minutes. So now that I'm going to be covering more pop culture, like what what do you think I should know?

In terms of talking celebrities, I think now it's just politics has become pop culture. And maybe that's why you feel like this shift too. And I think with that, celebrities are now more politically engaged than they've ever been. And they actually wanna talk about issues.

Oh, they do. I think of them as being like, they don't want to talk about that. Like they'll they'll be promoting a movie and they'll be like, They don't wanna be asked political issues. But you're saying there's what should I be doing differently?

It's tough for me to say what you should be doing differently, but rather why I think you're a perfect fit. It's like every day, there is some intersection between pop culture and politics that is now like at the forefront of news. Nicki Minaj is at the UN. Pete Hegseth is riding helicopters with Kid Rock. It's like, so the celebrity... Is now serving, in my view, as just like a catalyst for a much deeper conversation, one that you need to have a good understanding of social issues and politics to have. So hence why I think you would be terrific, and it's not that much of an evolution.

Oh my God, I'm sending you a check. Can you come and write the creative brief for the show? I really could use that help. No, now I'm processing what you're saying. I think that I have been so nervous about wandering. You know what it was? It's the old fashioned thinking of like, that's unserious. You can't do stuff that's quote unquote, unserious and it's taken a long time for me to convince various companies I've worked for that like, no, no that doesn't exist anymore. Like.

That does not exist anymore.

It just doesn't, that's not how people process the world. They like use equal seriousness for celebrity stories and political stories and equal levity for those stories and political stories. You know what I mean? Like there is, which is why I've always thought comedians have done so well in the news space.

Yeah, we're far beyond that. It is all becoming very unserious, and people are latching on just to what is popular in the moment, not why it is popular, not, oh, does this person have talent? Just are you big right now?

Well, it'll be interesting to see kind of how, just like TMZ sports, TMZ, DC is gonna evolve, right? And especially as we head into midterms, I'm gonna be really interested to see how you guys like handle that, right, as things spread across the country. Because often when lawmakers go away on break, they kind of disappear from our view. And there are so few local news organizations anymore and so many states and cities that like we actually, they kind can go dark. For a bit. Like we've learned about people who were sick for a really long time and possibly on their deathbed, right? Like that would have been within the public interest or whatever. But I think that there's this sense of I'm very curious to see, yeah, what's the difference between what you've been doing these last two weeks and literally a year from now. So I hope you'll come on the new show because we're here in DC.

I'd love to. I'd love to! Please!

Because I wanna I wanna swap notes man need to know how it's working out.

I'd love to.

Well, thank you so much. What's your mom's name?

Her name is Winnie.

Winnie! Well, Winnie, an early happy Mother's Day, you've done good. You've done good. Tell people where they can find you. What are your social media handles, etc.?

Yeah, I'd say Twitter, like we discussed, a great way to find me, it's Jacob, Jacob Woss. And I want to talk to everyone. So no matter what party, no matter of what your ideology is, let's talk. So feel free to reach out.

'That was Jacob Wasserman, he's co-managing editor of TMZ DC. And before you go, you should know, this is the last episode of The Assignment, or at least the Assignment as we know it. I'm not going away. In fact, the show is evolving into a new show called Engagement Party, and I'm gonna have a co-host, Ari Shapiro, also formerly of NPR, and we are going to cover, as you heard: culture. Pop culture, and power, things you've heard us talking about on the Assignment. Same feed, slightly different vibe. And before we leave for the party, I want to take a minute to pass the mic to some people who honestly help make this show what it is.

Hi, I'm Matt Martinez.

Hey, I'm Sofia Sanchez.

I'm Madeleine Thompson.

Hi, I'm Lori Galarreta.

Hi, my name is Kyra Dahring.

I'm Jennifer Lai.

I'm Dan Bloom.

My name is Grace Walker.

Hi, I'm Jesse Remedios.

I'm Graelyn Brashear.

'My favorite episode of The Assignment is Audie's conversation with Baratunde Thurston. It is a lovely, wide-ranging conversation about what it means to be patriotic in a moment when that feels really, really hard.

The episode that I loved producing was the bad bunny when the culture war because one he did to, we talked to the profiler Susie Exposito and three, we were able to capture Benitomania in real time.

The episode of The Assignment that I'm the most proud of is all the things we're saying about heated rivalry.

The episode that I like working on the most was AI in the Time of Loneliness because it took some convincing to get this one done, but I think at the end of it, it was a really awesome journey.

My favorite show that I got to work on was Why Does Dating Feel So Hard Right Now? Because I love reality TV and we had the couples therapy show host on.

My favorite episode of The Assignment is Meet the Man Who Saw the LA Fires Coming.

I loved working on the serious business of romance novels. It was awesome to get to go to the bookstore in Brooklyn and talk with all the booksellers about their favorite romance novel tropes.

My favorite episode of The Assignment that I worked on was called, Can We Build Our Way Out of the Housing Crisis? It was about the yimby movement and we actually filmed it on camera in an orange grove in Ojai.

The episode of the assignment that I worked on that I enjoyed the most is why Elon Musk wants you to have more kids.

The episode of The Assignment that I'll remember forever was with the lead singer of Old Crowe Medicine Show, Ketch Secor. And during this interview, he pulls out his guitar and plays this song for Audie called Louder Than Guns. That's the title of the episode, and that song still comes to me all the time.

And a few more people we have to thank. Isoke Samuel, Sonia Htoon, Carla Javier, Allison Park, Alex Stern, Steve Lickteig, Dan Dzula, and as always, as we used to say, Katie Hinman. Thank you for all you've done to make the assignment what it is. And for the rest of you, make sure you come back to the feed. We kick off on May 22nd.