podcast
The Assignment with Audie Cornish
Every Thursday on The Assignment, host Audie Cornish explores the animating forces of this extraordinary American political moment. It’s not about the horse race, it’s about the larger cultural ideas driving the conversation: the role of online influencers on the electorate, the intersection of pop culture and politics, and discussions with primary voices and thinkers who are shaping the political conversation.
Is the Manosphere Finally Collapsing?
The Assignment with Audie Cornish
Apr 9, 2026
The manosphere isn’t fringe anymore. It’s mainstream, political and hard to ignore. Louis Theroux’s latest Netflix documentary “Inside the Manosphere” arrives after a decade-long rise, from the gamergate controversy to personas like Andrew Tate. Audie speaks with New York Times Opinion writer Jessica Grose, who’s followed the movement since its beginning. They explore the state of the manosphere, the downfall of “alpha-male influencers” and how women fit —or don’t— into this world.
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Producers: Elizabeth Corallo, Jesse Remedios, Lori Galarreta, Graelyn Brashear
Senior Producer: Dan Bloom
Technical Director: Dan Dzula
Episode Transcript
Audie Cornish
00:00:02
I'm Audie Cornish, and this is The Assignment, and today we're talking about men, so I'm gonna show you some. We're talking about the manosphere.
Louis Theroux
00:00:14
Are you even in the manosphere? Not really?
Sneako
00:00:16
I guess so. Everybody in the manosphere is just... They're people online who are trying to make a buck with, you know, selling ideologies.
Audie Cornish
00:00:24
'Louis Theroux's recent Netflix documentary, "Inside the Manosphere," features conversations with 'alpha-male influencers,' bringing the content of the red-pilled corner of the internet into the mainstream in a different way. And my guest today says that the heat of the spotlight could really change things.
Jessica Grose
00:00:42
'I truly do think the biggest thing is seeing all of these manosphere-type figures in charge of our country and seeing like, 'Oh no, I don't like this at all. This is not going well. I miss the hall monitors.'
Audie Cornish
00:00:58
'This is Jessica Grose. She is an Opinion writer for the New York Times, and for more than a decade, she has tracked the rise of the so-called manosphere, going all the way back to Gamergate, to the charges against Andrew Tate, to the Netflix limited series "Adolescence." So in her latest piece, she argues that this might be the beginning of the end of the cultural phenomenon known as the manosphere. We're gonna talk about what that means for the rest of us who are parenting through it. Stay with us.
Audie Cornish
00:01:36
To help people wrap their arms around this at this point, what do you consider the manosphere? I would just describe it as like a social media ecosystem, and then I realized that's way too broad.
Jessica Grose
00:01:49
'I mean, I think it's accurate. I would say it is a loose collective of podcasters, streamers, social media personalities who tend to espouse conservative views on gender roles. And there's a broad range of people that you could categorize as part of the manosphere. I don't think any of them self-identify that way.
Audie Cornish
00:02:15
I was about to say, because there's some progressive dudes that I consider part of the manosphere because my definition is so poor. My definition is like, 'Are you a man talking? Like, is there... Do you have a podcast?' And I think it's because for the media, you know, especially the mainstream political media, there was this big awakening watching Trump in the 2024 election have this facility with that world. Now it feels like this world is taking another kind of quarter turn in its evolution.
Jessica Grose
00:02:48
Well, I do think that the Trump moment was a little bit of a mirage in terms of how influential, like Joe Rogan, Theo Von were necessarily over voters. I think people were really unhappy financially in 2024. And so, how much was the impact of these individual podcasters, or seeming to have this sort of human relationship with these podcasters? Or was it just Trump captured the disaffection of lots of people, specifically young men, who were turned off by a variety of things, throw racism and sexism into that pile, and whether those podcasters captured that? I mean, here's what I'm going to tell you. We are in such a fragmented media universe. No one knows. Nobody knows what's influential anymore. And that, you know, I'm sure lots of advisors to Democrats and Republicans are making so much money right now saying, 'Go on this podcast. No, this is really what's influential.' And I, you know, pay very close attention to polling influence. Nobody knows anymore. And I think that is what has become incredibly clear to me in the past, you know, two years. It's really harder than ever to track what is the, you know, trigger that even gets someone to the ballot box in the first place, right?
Audie Cornish
00:04:22
So your most recent opinion article, you actually gave your own thoughts. It's not a review. It's kind of like a study of this new documentary that is on Netflix, right, about the manosphere. It's called "Inside the Manisphere." And your thesis is actually that how this documentary approaches its subjects is actually the first step into the downfall of the manosphere. And because it's been a few weeks since its been released, people have been watching it. I'm wondering if you still stand by that thesis.
Jessica Grose
00:04:57
I do, I really do. I think he, I thought Louis Theroux, who was the host and...
Audie Cornish
00:05:04
Yeah, the documentary filmmaker.
Jessica Grose
00:05:05
He had a very sort of subtle way of asking them questions, which showed both the emptiness of whatever their views were and also their cowardice. He kept trying to get these men to answer questions in front of their girlfriends and mothers.
Audie Cornish
00:05:27
Yeah, I actually read an interview in the Times about that, how he considers that a strategy of like, with your interview subjects, they may talk a big game and then when you pull someone in the room who really knows them, they're kind of caught in between.
Jessica Grose
00:05:42
Exactly. So, you know, there's one 'manfluencer' that he talks to whose name is Myron.
Audie Cornish
00:05:49
'Manfluencer' is hilarious every time I hear it.
Jessica Grose
00:05:52
His name is Myron Gaines, and he's talking this big game about how I'm going to have multiple wives and like, you know, never be faithful to anyone. And Theroux questions him about this fantasy in front of his girlfriend, and he immediately backtracks.
Myron Gaines
00:06:07
That's a bridge we'll cross when we get there. Like right now.
Louis Theroux
00:06:10
What does that mean? That's so avoidant.
Myron Gaines
00:06:12
It's something you never know, man. You can always change your mind down the road. Who knows, maybe I'll say, you know, I only just want to be with one girl because the two would be too tough.
Louis Theroux
00:06:20
You've backtracked on that already?
Jessica Grose
00:06:21
And so for the viewer watching it, you see the sort of bravado, the emptiness, and then you also see many of these influencers sort of escalate in their behavior because it's attention. It's an attention economy. They're very aware that they just need to continue keeping their audience's attention. So it goes from just saying, you know, terrible things about women, about many different kinds of ethnic minorities to saying, to literally beating people up in the streets. Like you're just escalating the behavior to an absurd degree.
Audie Cornish
00:07:04
Because you have to create stunts, and that's something the documentary reveals. And again, we're talking about the corner of the manosphere of these live streamers or looks maxers or whatever. But people who I don't think I'm talking about random doctors here. I'm sort of talking about this world of young men flexing and peacocking for other young men, and talk... And being... Taught using a lot of misogyny in the way they talk about straight relationships. And there's this one in particular, I guess, that's uh... HSTikkyTokky, where the documentarian is sitting with him and just says, 'Why don't you, you know, try being good? Like sort of what's the thinking here?' And he actually pauses for a beat. And he says something like, 'I don't think I would have the attention I would if I was just a good guy online.' And he's not wrong.
Jessica Grose
00:07:58
'To me, there's sort of no belief system beyond attention and money for this group of the manosphere. Whereas if you go back 10-15 years, which is, you know, when most people cite the sort of origins of the manosphere, they really at least were genuinely racist and anti-semetic. It's like, I'm not saying that was better.
Audie Cornish
00:08:21
No, but Jordan Peterson, right? Philosopher. He was like, 'I have a set of beliefs, I'm teaching you how to live, I'm referencing other philosophies.' This is almost an academic exercise for the masses to enjoy. Some of the most famous and established ones at this point, you're right, they have a foot in that tradition.
Jessica Grose
00:08:43
I also think it's like we're lumping in a lot of different people together.
Audie Cornish
00:08:46
That's what I was gonna say.
Jessica Grose
00:08:48
Yeah, someone like Andrew Huberman, who, I've listened to his podcast. It's mostly decent, scientifically backed information, right?
Audie Cornish
00:08:57
Yeah.
Jessica Grose
00:08:57
'I think often because these people at least portray themselves to be socializing with each other. So it's like he goes on Rogan's podcast. This is how they promote each other and get more attention. It's sort of a guilt-by-association thing where I don't know this man's personal views, but, you know, I'm just- I'm just glad he's pro-vaccine at this point. Like the bar is in hell.
Audie Cornish
00:09:23
'But I agree what you're trying to do. There's a couple lanes here, right? There's, to me, little, Gen Z leaning digital natives who... There's a little bit of a grift vibe. But there is also this world of true believers. And to me, the true believers take some ideas and very much are trying to execute policy. So whether that's pronatalism and some of the policies that certainly feminists would feel are regressive, whether you're having alpha-male boot camps, you know, sort of in real life, people to, I don't know what, because real boot camp exists. Or the people, as we mentioned in the White House, in the military, who are like, 'Look, recruitment is booming,' because we are presenting a more like masculine, de-woke-ified military. So what I'm trying to say is, there is a world of people who have taken that energy and brought it to policy.
Jessica Grose
00:10:24
Absolutely. And I think, unfortunately, a lot of the true believers of at least different threads of the manosphere are currently in our federal government, which paradoxically makes it less popular among teenage boys because it does not have the frisson of counterculture anymore.
Audie Cornish
00:10:44
Oh, good word, New York Times. Can you talk about the counterculture element of that? Because I do think we underestimate the appeal of a world where people felt they had no boundaries after many years of being locked down physically, and then they would argue rhetorically.
Jessica Grose
00:11:02
'That is something that I don't know where it's going. Like, I don't know what the next thing is going to be that is going to provide that same feeling. But I truly do think the biggest thing is seeing all of these manosphere-type figures in charge of our country and seeing like, 'Oh no. I don't like this at all. This is not going well. I miss the hall monitors.' Like, this isn't funny anymore?
Audie Cornish
00:11:29
I mean, certainly around the Iran war, right? Like when you see how there are people talking in that community of listeners who are worried about the draft, for example, which there is no draft right now, as far as we know, there are not plans for a draft, but that anxiety surfacing so publicly was surprising to me.
Jessica Grose
00:11:54
Absolutely. I mean, I think a majority opinion of people under 40 is that they do not want America to be involved in foreign conflicts that are not absolutely necessary. And I think there is a lot of support for Palestinian people and a lot discussed with the way Israel has handled itself, and you see this across the board. Men and women under 40, liberal, conservative.
Audie Cornish
00:12:23
It's a horseshoe politic issue where you really see on both extreme ends a displeasure that links them politically.
Audie Cornish
00:12:35
I'm talking with Jessica Gross after the break. We're gonna swap notes on parenting in the era of the manosphere.
Audie Cornish
00:12:49
'The other secret preoccupation of this show is how to raise my sons so they do not end up in one of my new stories. So come on a journey with me-
Jessica Grose
00:13:01
I will!
Audie Cornish
00:13:02
for a moment. Cause you and I have both followed this story and I feel as though I often feel like I don't want to, I don't want to do what we're doing now. I don't want to be two women talking about what those men are doing. And that it's all inherently bad, okay? So I generally kind of stay away from this kind of conversation.
Jessica Grose
00:13:22
Totally.
Audie Cornish
00:13:23
'But I also wanted to talk to you because I heard you might have kids. And you might-.
Jessica Grose
00:13:27
I have two girls.
Audie Cornish
00:13:28
You have two girls, lucky you.
Jessica Grose
00:13:30
I have girls.
Audie Cornish
00:13:32
'Because I, you know, it is hard to think about, like, how do I encourage their confidence? How do I maintain that confidence? How do we teach them how to embrace rejection or pick themselves up? All of these things that I kind of honestly, maybe as a hetero-woman kind of was like, 'That's their problem! You know, sorry to that man.' Suddenly feels like my problem. You know what I mean?
Jessica Grose
00:13:59
Yeah, of course.
Audie Cornish
00:14:00
Suddenly feels, like how... It's not just how do I make them into young men, but it's like, how do I make them into people? People who aren't ashamed of who they are. And that does include their gender.
Jessica Grose
00:14:12
Of course.
Audie Cornish
00:14:13
And one of the things that the manosphere types have often talked about is the sense that like boys and men are being made to feel ashamed of who they are and what they are, and that sort of thing. And I don't always think that's completely wrong.
Jessica Grose
00:14:24
I think that's right, and I think that as a parent, I think there's a number of things that you can do that are passive, and it's just living your life. I think it's setting an example of how you and the men in your life who are adults treat each other, treat the kids, act in the world. I think that is the most influential thing you can do. I mean, I keep seeing all of these people being like, 'We need a manosphere of the left,' and it's like... no. Like, kids are gonna admire who they're gonna admire. Like, this is a completely different, you know, sort of thing, but it's like, my older daughter absolutely loves Sabrina Carpenter. She's obsessed with her. The lyrics have me feeling like Tipper Gore. I'm just like, I don't.
Audie Cornish
00:15:21
I was just waiting for it. I was like, 'I don't think she's gonna be into this meta irony male gaze pop star,' but yeah, go on.
Jessica Grose
00:15:29
But I have to let her, right? The second I start with my like, you know, millennial feminist... She turns off immediately. She loves Sabrina Carpenter and nothing... Anything I say against her, she will just be mad about, right? So I think we need to let our kids, in general, find what they like in pop culture. Listen, if it's Andrew Tate, you have a problem, and you need to talk to your child.
Audie Cornish
00:15:55
'Let me tell you, it's even simpler than that. I have conversations with them about consent that are not described as conversations about consent, right? They're under the age of 10. So they often go something like this. So-and-so wanted to hug me, and I'm like, 'Oh, how was that?' You know, it was like a lot of inquiry. 'Well, I didn't mind, but I didn't want to.' I'm, like, 'Okay, well, here's a little story. You never have to hug someone you don't want to hug, and you never are owed a hug. People don't have to give you things because you like them or because you've been friends before.' Now, I'm gonna say some other version of this two years from now and four years from now. But sometimes I wish there was more of a community that talked about these things that I could turn to. You know what I mean? That I could be like, hey, without somebody telling me like, 'Oh, it's overblown, actually the girls are still struggling.' Like it gets tied into a whole windfall of progressive grievances. And really what you're trying to do is be like, no, no, I just want to make one that you're not going to hate. Like, that's my mission here.
Jessica Grose
00:17:02
But I feel like just that you have that intention goes like 90% of the way, right? Because there's only so much you can control.
Audie Cornish
00:17:13
I guess the reason why I'm preoccupied with this is because I want to find a new way for women to have a voice in this conversation that isn't about harm and doesn't involve the word toxic the whole time. I do actually think that's alienating. And it doesn't feel, now that everyone has diagnosed the problem in such a profound way, I kind of want to move to the next step. And to me that is related to our manosphere discussion, right? Like, we don't have to wait for another man to fill the gap.
Jessica Grose
00:17:47
Okay, so this is my spiciest take, I've never...
Audie Cornish
00:17:50
Give it to me!
Jessica Grose
00:17:51
'I've never written it and I may someday. I actually think we have moved beyond a place where we need all of these sort of separate girl-only spaces. I think the solution, a big part of the solution, is forcing more co-educational hanging out because I think a lot of the sort of distrust and dislike of the other gender comes from a lack of exposure. And so I think getting kids to spend time with each other.
Audie Cornish
00:18:28
Low stakes time, not the dance, like low stakes. You're not here to pair up. You're not here to discover your sexuality, like try and have a conversation and see if you can function.
Jessica Grose
00:18:42
'Yes, so more activities, like not sports, like they need the separate sports. Like I'm... I get that. I mean, my kids were in co-ed soccer when they were really little and the boys simply would not pass to them. And I was like, this sucks. Like they're bummed out. Like it's not a good time. So I think, you know, keep the sports what they are and the kids will certainly bond through that. I think everything else, like maybe we don't need Girls Who Code anymore? Maybe we don't. We have like just everybody together encouraged to the best of their ability, and trust in the teachers or whatever adult is running a space to make sure that the kids involved of every background are getting the attention that they need. Because I do think we're at this moment where the more we separate, the more we're telling kids you need to be separated.
Audie Cornish
00:19:34
Why is that your spiciest take?
Jessica Grose
00:19:36
'Oh, I think people who still are really into like, 'No, the girls need the separate things or their self-esteem is gonna be bad,' will be mad about it and will disagree with me, which is fine. Disagreement is, you know... I'm an opinion writer, people disagree with all the time. And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there are girls who still do need those spaces, but I increasingly feel like they don't. And they don't need-
Audie Cornish
00:20:00
'Or that when you have co-ed spaces, the conversation is more open to some of these spicier concepts. Like with your kid's soccer game, was there someone who should have been like, 'Boys, pass because you are actually bad players who don't know how to pass'? Like, should that have been the coaching conversation rather than you being like, 'I gotta put them back in a girls' league'? Like, that's what I mean. Like, is there- There's a level of dialogue that is not happening?
Jessica Grose
00:20:31
That is such a good point. I abdicated. I was just like...
Audie Cornish
00:20:34
'No, I'm not saying that! I'm just saying like, to me, it feels like there's a way to talk about that without being like, boys are bad, and girls are good, and this is mean, and this is victim... And being like, 'Hey, an all-rounder knows how to pass.' And then that's not even gendered, you know what I mean? But it would take like a level of kind of awareness that honestly we don't have as parents on the sidelines of any sport. We're unhinged watching our kids.
Jessica Grose
00:21:02
The root of the problem is that they don't see each other as fully human, right? Like I always see that as the root. It's like they're other in some way. And so exposure.
Audie Cornish
00:21:12
'And we should just say, you are not being, this is not hyperbole, like I have heard this kind of language from some of the high-profile voices, as you said, of this kind of extreme end of the manosphere, where they use the phrase subhuman to talk about women.
Jessica Grose
00:21:26
Yeah, and they're like, women shouldn't vote.
Audie Cornish
00:21:28
They shouldn't vote.
Jessica Grose
00:21:29
Yeah.
Audie Cornish
00:21:30
We'll hear that more, frankly, listener, if you're listening closely about repealing the amendments and all this stuff. And it's very jarring.
Jessica Grose
00:21:40
It's not great. I don't like it.
Audie Cornish
00:21:42
It's very jarring to hear that said out loud as though it is a like, 'You know what? It's something to think about.' You know what I mean? Like, 'Should they be voting?' And I'm like, 'Why? Why is this a dialog? Don't you have something else to tackle,' and it's, it's real.
Jessica Grose
00:22:01
'Well, I feel like that goes back to, I mean, the root of, I think, so much of the problem with the dialogue goes back to the problems that were highlighted in the manosphere documentary, which is like, everything is attention. And so, a nuanced, real discussion among actual human beings who are seeing each other's humanity and disagreeing politely is boring. Nobody wants to see that. They wanna see-
Audie Cornish
00:22:28
You can't monetize that.
Jessica Grose
00:22:29
'You can't monetize that. That is-
Audie Cornish
00:22:31
No matter what Ted Lasso told you, folks, as it turns out.
Jessica Grose
00:22:36
It's not entertainment, it's relational, right?
Audie Cornish
00:22:39
All right, well, thank you for trying to hash all of this out with me. People can find your writing where?
Jessica Grose
00:22:47
'At the New York Times. I write a twice-weekly newsletter, so if they just Google: 'New York Times, Jessica Gross.' They will find a way to subscribe to that newsletter. And my last name is spelled G-R-O-S-E, which is unusual. You can find me on Instagram @JessGroseWrites. And those are sort of my main places where I'm talking.
Audie Cornish
00:23:11
All right. Well, Jessica, thank you so much for talking with me, giving me advice, helping me through this. I appreciate it.
Jessica Grose
00:23:21
Oh, my pleasure! I don't know how much I helped, but I did try.
