A big theme of the messaging of the second Trump presidency so far has been that Trump is doing exactly what he promised on the campaign trail.

We are going to choke off the money to schools that aid the Marxist assault on our American heritage and on Western civilization itself.

For example, take what he said about colleges and universities.

We will cut federal funding for any school or program pushing critical race theory, gender ideology, or other inappropriate racial, sexual, or political content onto our children.

'When he accused Columbia University of tolerating anti-Semitism and demanded it change its policies around protests and masks, place its Middle East, South Asian, and African Studies Department under academic receivership, and give campus police new arrest powers or risk losing hundreds of millions of dollars of federal funding, Columbia appeared to comply and made a series of policy changes and enhanced restrictions on demonstrations. Critics saw that as caving to the Trump administration's demands. But university leadership then sent a note to students saying it would not allow the government to quote, require us to relinquish our independence and autonomy and would reject any orchestration that could damage the institution or reforms. It is also promised to address concerns about antisemitism and discrimination. Well, earlier this week, Harvard University facing similar threats said we're not budging.

Harvard said tonight that it was rejecting a list of demands from the administration on sweeping changes and would fight back against them.

Harvard's president writing in a statement this, in part, no government regardless of which party is in power should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which area of study and inquiry they can pursue.

'Since then, the Trump administration has escalated the standoff, threatening its ability to host foreign students and cutting off crucial money for life-saving research.

'More than $2.2 billion in federal funding has been frozen for multi-year grants and contracts at Harvard.

'We're learning that the IRS is making plans to rescind the tax-exempt status held by Harvard University. That's according to two sources. They say that a final decision is expected soon.

And this goes beyond Ivy League schools. Universities around the country are deciding what they will do if the Trump administration comes calling. That goes for students too. Will they want to attend a school whose funding or curriculum could be compromised? Today, two students heading to Harvard and Columbia explained why they still feel good about their choices for now, and CNN's Lauren Del Valle explains what options other universities have if they choose to fight back. From CNN, this is One Thing. I'm David Rind.

I host a political podcast with some of my friends and we'll do like an hour and a half long recording about liberation day tariffs and then the next day they're all gone and they're like, okay.

As a fellow podcaster, I relate.

'This is Morgan Johnson. I'm an 18-year-old senior at Wagner High School in Wagner, Oklahoma, which is in the northeast part of Oklahoma, about an hour south of Tulsa.

'He's not your typical high school senior. 18-Year-old me was not recording political podcasts in my spare time, for example. But Morgan is also the first person from his high school to be heading to Harvard, his dream school. He says Harvard's financial aid policy towards families that aren't super rich means most of his tuition is covered. But he was still considering other schools, including sticking closer to home at the University of Tulsa.

I ended up choosing Harvard mainly because of this recent decision by Harvard's administration to reject some of the demands that the Trump administration had put on them. I found that very appealing to my worldview and their support of higher education, and now I'm here where I am.

Oh, so you were on the fence until just like a couple of days ago when Harvard made its stand?

'Yeah, for a couple of reasons. One, the University of Tulsa offered me a full-ride scholarship. And looking at it long-term in the future, I had to weigh between taking on a little bit of debt, going to Harvard, and graduating debt-free from undergraduate from the University of Tulsan, that's a tough decision. Like I was genuinely worried that Harvard would not be in the place that it is today in 10, 20, 30 years because of the decisions of the administration and lack of decisions and some of the key issues facing the community today. And they really shifted my perspective on where they are as a higher education institution and that they're gonna continue to be the global leader and forerunner in academia.

Are you saying as if they didn't, if they had come out and said, we are complying with what the Trump administration is demanding of us, that you would not have chosen to go to Harvard?

'Probably, yeah, I think we're being faced with a bit of an inflection point in the overall vitality of higher education, especially elite institutions, and the independence of higher education from government must be preserved in order to keep that relationship that we have right now vital and flowing. And when we look at the actions of, let's say, Columbia University, what they're telling their students, and what they're telling their prospective applicants is... That because of funding, because of money, we're gonna allow ununiformed officers to come in and arrest people whose speech we disagree with. We're gonna to allow and support definitions of anti-Semitism that some include very legitimate criticisms of the Israeli government because of an administration who wants to use leverage against a private university to accomplish their goals, which is to dismantle the elite and what are viewed as liberal chambers and institutions. And I don't want to be associated with a place that basically tells me that my speech and my right to use that speech means less than the funding and the money that gets them by the federal government.

'But on the funding, a lot of the federal funding goes to a lot important research that the university is doing. You know, we at CNN are reporting today, as we sit here on Wednesday, that the IRS is making plans to rescind Harvard's tax-exempt status. So I guess I'm wondering, do you think you'll still be able to get the kind of education at Harvard that you envisioned? I mean, the true answer is I

'But I think that the principle of their choice is far greater to me than the material of their choices. I may have a harder time as a prospective college student over these next four years because of the reputation of Harvard taking a bit of a tank. It's not very popular to be a Harvard student right now. I come from the middle of rural conservative Oklahoma. And a lot of people have told me, don't let those liberals up at Harvard change you or turn you villainous or whatever you want it to be. And that's OK. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But it comes with a set of both expectations and ideas from what we see in the news every day about the elite liberal establishment and the Harvard elites and liberal echo chambers. Since some of it is very. Very legitimate criticisms. Like, I have a problem with where I am because of it's so leaning conservative that it's tough to have left-leaning ideas and to have prudence in them where I'm. And the same applies for conservative leaning people at a place like Harvard. I think a college should have a diffusion of ideas and challenge the way you believe. And I myself, I tend to lean left on a lot of issues, am worried in some ways that I'm not gonna see that at Harvard. And I hope you enjoyed! You know, to change that and shift some of the discourse and the dialog while I'm there.

So when the administration says it wants Harvard to foster more diversity of views on campus, you would welcome that kind of thing?

'I think that is a completely fair assessment, but I think the way that they're going about it, threatening funding of research, threatening the funding of medical hospitals associated with Harvard Medical School, I think, that's not the way to go about it. They foster legitimate criticism. Anti-Semitism is a serious problem on Harvard's campus, and it needs to be resolved. And the administration at Harvard has been slow and inept at doing it. They're in the right track, but I think we're seeing a course correct towards a positive direction right now instead of a negative direction. One that is being fraught with threat, with defunding, and with a movement against intellectualism as a whole. And so I think we can really hit two birds with one stone, remain an independent institution, and solve these big legitimate problems at the school. And I think Harvard is doing that.

'The pressure that they're facing. It's worth noting that in a letter earlier this week, Harvard's president wrote that the university has taken many steps over the past 15 months to fight anti-Semitism on campus and has pledged to do much more. Now you heard Morgan mention how he was not a fan of how Colombia has handled threats from the administration, but not everyone is as plugged in as Morgan.

I mean, I didn't even know Columbia existed until last year, my junior year. Really?

This is Rodrigo Flores. He's a senior at Angola High School in Angola, Indiana.

I moved here to the U.S. About seven years ago from Mexico City, but then I discovered the program called Quest Bridge. And the way it works is you match with one of the schools to rank. So I matched to my number one choice, which is Columbia. I got into Columbia through that program with the full ride.

'Congrats. Thank you. Rodrigo says he saw how Columbia allowed the NYPD to come on campus last year to evict a group of pro-Palestinian protesters who had occupied a building. He viewed that response as heavy-handed. He wasn't a fan. And he says all the negative attention surrounding the university has complicated how he feels about his school choice.

When I got in, I was really excited. And I guess I am still now, but before today or before I visited, I would go online and see like all the news who would cover something new that would happen every day about Columbia. So it really kind of made me think that I had made a mistake even choosing Columbia. But once I actually went and spoke with students, it really isn't, and I don't want to say it isn't as bad, but I don' think it really affects student life in general.

You feel like you can still go feel comfortable and get the education that they're known for. He says the fact the university was so quick to bend to Trump's demands isn't a deal breaker, but he will be keeping an eye on what they say and do going forward.

I think there are things they could do that would make me think twice about going there. Like what? Maybe like changing the structure of the school. I remember, and correct me if I'm wrong, on the letter Trump sent to Columbia. I think he mentioned about academic receivership for some sort of department, I'm pretty Yeah, I believe it was Middle Eastern studies. I don't think they agreed completely to it, but had they done it, then yeah, I feel like that would really make me think like, you know, what's going on, I mean.

So you don't want to see the Trump administration coming in and sort of dictating as to how exactly the schools should be teaching certain subjects.

Yeah, and I hope I don't see that happen to any other school in the US, not just Columbia.

When we come back, CNN's Lauren Delvalle tells us if other universities could indeed be next and if Harvard's response will provide them a playbook. Okay, Lauren, so that was how some students are feeling about all this, but can you just outline for me exactly what the Trump administration has been doing ever since Harvard basically said, we're not complying here.

So, Harvard is really the first higher ed institution to push back so strongly against the administration. And what we're seeing now is this escalated full frontal assault from every direction. Monday night, you know, we see this freeze on more than $2 billion of funding for the university. Tuesday, we hear from Trump that the IRS should really revoke the university's exemption status. Now, Wednesday, we hear from the IRS, some CNN original reporting that the IRS is looking into how they can pull the university's tax exemption status. Hours after that, DHS announces that they're considering pulling the certification Harvard needs to allow international students to actually be admitted at Harvard. International students make up more than a quarter of the university student population. So it's really, as the days go on, and we're seeing Harvard stick to their stance, but at the same time, we haven't seen any action, no litigation yet. They're just holding their ground and trying to figure out internally what this funding freeze means for them.

Yeah. I mean, those are some big moves and on the tax exempt status in particular, like I'm not a finance guy, so I don't know exactly what that even means, but how would that impact operations?

Well, it's really unclear how the university would then be classified by the IRS. That's a big question mark that still remains unknown. Typically, when the exemption status changes, which, by the way, is extremely rare, it usually starts with a full audit. We're not sure where the timeline stands on this, but we know the IRS is working on it. But it means... Harvard would pay taxes. And obviously that affects their bottom line and they have to come up with that money. And they've already had a significant amount of funding frozen.

And the idea that the Trump administration, like the White House directing the IRS to kind of look at this, that's not normal, right?

No, it's really not, and it just speaks to the unprecedented moment wherein Trump is looking at every angle that he can hit Harvard with.

'It's not lost on me that Harvard is one of the most well-off colleges in America. Like, their endowment was more than $50 billion last year. Why do they even need federal funding?

Yeah, so it's actually much more complicated than that. They do have this massive endowment, but from our research we found that at least 70 percent of their endowment funds are actually already earmarked for donor designated purposes. So they are actually legally required to use that money for what it's been designated for. So it's not just a free pot of money that they can reallocate.

Oh, so a donor donates to a specific cause within the university or something like that, and that money has to go there. They can't just use it for whatever they need the most.

Oftentimes, yes, there are regulations around how endowments can be used.

'Tonight at Harvard, students swayed back and forth, simultaneously defending the university's defiance of the Trump administration and also expressing concern over what these massive funding cuts mean for cutting-edge research.

These are people who are the best in the world, and that's why they're here, so that research is sort of in jeopardy.

And if you look at Harvard's website right now, what they've done is shown anybody who might look at it how important federal funding is to their work. They do this massive amount of scientific research that affects the world.

Among the research that's already been hit with stop work orders. According to CNN reporting, we're talking about studies that are looking into ways to help reduce the side effects of radiation for cancer patients. Also, important research into both early diagnosis and treatment options for ALS, also known as Lou Gehrig's disease, and tuberculosis studies as well.

'And a lot of that is supported by federal funding for decades. And last year, we found that Harvard received nearly $700 million in sponsored funding from the federal government and has more than 1,500 NIH grants that are multi-year. A lot of these things are being affected by this freeze. And it's something that, again, affects this research that... Hits the community society at large, and that's in addition to the economic situation in Boston, you know, Harvard is a massive employer of people in that city and around the area.

Well, so what are the next steps here for Harvard? Like, are they gonna take this to core?

So again, this is a largely unprecedented situation, and there's no clear or obvious path that Harvard can take. But there's a good shot that this ends up in the court system. And that could be Harvard taking the fight to the administration and filing a federal lawsuit, asking the court to intervene and to stop the government from unlawfully freezing their funding that affects so much of their operation. We haven't seen that yet, but legal experts have told me that they could possibly succeed on a case based on First Amendment protections or retaliation. If you look at the timeline, it was only hours after Harvard took a stand that the administration did freeze their funding. While we haven't see Harvard make their move in court yet, we did see some preemptive action from a group of Harvard faculty members. In a lawsuit they filed against the administration, trying to preempt the funding freeze because the administration has been threatening for weeks now to take away Harvard funding. That litigation hasn't moved forward. We haven't seen any action there. And we have to wonder, is that group actually now waiting to take its next steps based on what the university does?

I'm wondering beyond Harvard because I know the vast majority of students in this country don't go to Harvard or any Ivy League school, so this can kind of feel like a distant problem to them I imagine, but are we about to see fights like this play out at other universities across the country?

'I mean, there's no indication that the administration is slowing down or giving up on this mission against what they've said is, you know, anti-Semitism in these liberal schools as they've designated them. You know, in March, they actually listed 45 schools that they were reviewing the funding for, and it's just been a rolling announcement of funding freezes and cancelations since then.

And so whatever Harvard ends up doing, whether it's in the courts or other ways for them to secure funding, is that kind of a playbook for these other schools to say, hey, we can kind of model this if the Trump administration comes for us in such a severe way like they've done here.

In this unprecedented time, Harvard will likely serve as a roadmap for other institutions that could be gearing up for their own fight with the administration. Another option Harvard can choose, like some other universities that have sort of acquiesced to the administration with quiet compliance to their policy changes and those demands, Harvard could negotiate here and that might prove to be a more sustainable option. We do know that Harvard hired conservative lawyers who are known to have Republican ties. And while we don't know for sure, these litigators might be the channel that Harvard hopes to use to broker some kind of sustainable solution with the administration, or at least cool down the tensions. Seeing Harvard pivot in that way would probably signal to other institutions to follow suit, and we'll have to see how that plays out.

But at the same time, if they do go down that path, you might see students react negatively, considering Harvard has taken such a strong stance here, at least at this moment. Lauren, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Thank You.

One Thing is a production of CNN Audio. This episode was produced by Paolo Ortiz and me, David Rind. Our senior producers are Felicia Patinkin, Haley Thomas, and Faiz Jamil. Matt Dempsey is our production manager. Dan Dzula is our technical director, and Steve Lickteig is the executive producer of CNN Audio. We get support from Alex Manasseri, Robert Mathers, John Dianora, Leni Steinhart, Jamus Andrest, Nichole Pesaru, and Lisa Namerow. Special thanks to Wendy Brundage. We'll be back on Wednesday. I'll talk to you then.