I'm Laura Coates, and this is Trial by Jury.

Here we are in week three of the trial against rap icon Sean Diddy Combs for RICO, for sex trafficking, for prostitution. Today, we heard from three key witnesses. One was an LAPD officer who says that he actually was following an Escalade that was at the home of Kid Cudi, whose plates were connected to Bad Boy.

We also heard from an LAFD, the fire department, arson investigator, who says that there was some DNA on the bottle that contained the Molotov cocktail, but it was traced back to an unknown woman.

But then we heard the testimony from a stylist and good friend of Cassie Ventura, who today was describing what it was like to be a part of their inner circle and the kind of control and agency that Cassie did or did not have. In the trenches with me, as my fellow eyes and ears for you, was none other than the CNN entertainment correspondent Elizabeth Wagmeister, who has been following this from the very beginning, and when he took the stand, he revealed a lot.

'All right, Laura, I wanna talk about Deontay Nash, who was a former stylist for Cassie Ventura and Sean Combs, but remains a very close friend of Cassie's today. He said on the stand that he spoke to her yesterday with the birth of her baby boy to say congratulations. So they clearly are very close friends. And the reason why that's important, is this is different from anyone that we've heard so far. We've heard testimony from people who are testifying about the past and what they recall from the past, but Deontay is someone who is not only testifying about the time that he worked very closely with Cassie and Combs, but also someone who was still her friend today. So he was hired by Bad Boy, by Combs to be a stylist for Combs and for Cassie. And he worked for them for years. And what he testified to was the fact that he says Cassie was controlled by Sean Combs. He said that her looks were approved by him. Every outfit, her haircut, her movements, her music. He said that Cassie was in the studio almost daily, repeatedly recording this mixtape. And when asked how much of that music was actually released during her time at Bad Boy when Deontay worked for her and for Combs, Deontays said, I would be generous if I said 10%. So obviously what he's trying to say there, and what the prosecutors more importantly are trying to put out there for the jury, is Cassie was working her tail off, but Sean Combs was the one who could control her career, and she was working hard, but that music was not being released. Now, as it comes to the control of her image and of her movements and what she could do, I mean, Deontay Nash said, that as friends, just socially, that he didn't like them going out together. One time he said that when Cassie and him and some other girlfriends went to a gay club that Shawn Combs got very angry and afterwards was one of the instances where he witnessed physical violence of Cassie by Shawn Combes. So that's the social aspect. But when it comes to the career aspect, on cross-examination, Combs' defense asked Deontay Nash, isn't it normal for the head of a huge entertainment company, the head of a label, to have control and to have the final say over an artist's look? After all, an artist has to look good. A celebrity has to look good when they walk the streets. Their clothes have to look good when their in the award show. The look is part of the image. The image is part of the brand. The brand is what creates the star. And of course, the star is what creates money for this label. Well, Deontaye agreed with that. But he said it was different for Cassie. He said that other artists at Bad Boy were not controlled like Cassie was. He said the other artists could pretty much pick out their outfits. They could do what they want, but not Cassie, every single decision had to go through calm. So I thought that was a really interesting back and forth where the defense made some great points where they said, she's a star. She works for a label. Her job is to do what the label wants. But I also thought that the prosecutors made a great point in saying, mm, this was actually different. Cassie was not like the rest of them.

'You know, this trial has been nothing short of riveting, as was the testimony of my guest, who I've spoken to briefly with before. And his name is Sharay Hayes, and he was one of the people who testified in the trial. He's an exotic male dancer. He is known by his stage name, The Punisher, and he says that he participated in these various so-called freak-offs alongside of and Sean Diddy Combs. And Sharay joins us now. Sharay, good to see you again. How you doing?

It's been a good day today.

I mean, this has been nothing short of, probably amazing in the sense of this has been an atypical month, week, time. Did you ever think that you would have this moment happen?

Absolutely not. These events happened over a decade ago. I thought it was long behind me, just a distant story that a few of my close friends knew about. So for it to be, you know, on this platform of this magnitude with the whole world knowing is something that I couldn't even think of anything like this being possible.

'Let me just go back, because you are an exotic dancer. This is not unknown to your family and friends, but you describe this being a one-off in that when you got to this house or this hotel that day and you were called to what you thought was to perform for maybe a bachelorette party or a group of people to set a scene, you got there and what happened?

Yeah, so I was under the impression, like the thousands of parties I've literally done before that, that it was just going to be a little get together. And, you know, I show up to a woman opening the door in a bathrobe that was clear that she was nude under. So it was something I never experienced, something I did not expect. And you know Ms. Ventura is stunning. So when you see a woman that's attractive opening the doors and you're completely blindsided by that, it's just. It was like a wow moment and it was something with even all the years of being in the business I had never experienced.

At what point did you realize that you were not there to perform for her in the traditional sense of dance?

Almost immediately. You know, I was invited into the suite and we got to the living room area. Obviously, I'm expecting guests and the room is empty and dimly lit, kind of like a romantic ambiance and all the furniture's covered in sheets. And I tried to just stay with protocol and say, hey, do you want me to change? I was in front of a bathroom. And she then immediately told me, no, I don't want you to dance, we're, I'm looking for you to help create this sexy scene for me and my husband, and kind of gave me instructions from there. So it was pretty transparent once I got in the door.

You didn't recognize who she was in terms of her celebrity yet, though.

I did not, I did, and I literally got out of there and did every Google search I can think of trying to figure it out. But I was searching under the criteria of married couple because I believed they were married. So I was trying to Google celebrities married, trying to find something and I drew a blank, obviously walking up the wrong tree.

Did you know that there was a man in the room. Obviously it turned out to be, as you say, Sean Diddy Combs. Do you know that? There was anyone else there?

Yeah, it was instructed to me that her husband would come out to watch eventually. And for me to not acknowledge him, look at him, have any communication with him, we're supposed to act like he's not there. So he was in a distance far across the room. And to make matters more difficult with identifying him, he wore, I believe it's called a burqa, like a veil Muslim women wear where you can only see their eyes. So making him out at that point was gonna be difficult as it was, and there was an awkwardness because all he had on was the burqa, but the rest of his body was nude. So I was just doing my best to do as I was instructed, avoid looking at him, avoid eye contact, avoid any type of acknowledgement of him. So that made it more difficult to figure out who I was in the room with.

It almost sounds like it's so awkward that it might be a little bit intimidating at first, not knowing who's there. Did you ever feel unsafe in that moment?

Not a full degree of safety, but you do worry. There's some strange people in this world. And just me, I see this stunning, beautiful woman and I'm interacting with her sexually, right? With her partner in the room. So there's going to be these thoughts, well, what if this guy gets jealous? If he changes his mind in the middle and decides to react the way. So there was a sense of me having to be alert and aware of just trying to read the reaction or if there could be some sort of discomfort experience by him that he could act on, but luckily there was no issues like that.

Did he ever say anything?

Not to me directly, you know, clearly with the burqa and the instructions in the beginning, it has become clear there was a concerted effort to not reveal his identity. So there was very little conversation and the more I think about it, I think that was by design to try to keep his identity a secret.

Did you ever sexually interact with him or it was just with Cassie Ventura?

No, just with Ms. Ventura. Like I said, I was there as much as as many 12 encounters. And I want to say only two of the encounters he may have gotten within five feet of me. Almost all of the encounter were far across the room in a corner, kind of discreetly out of the way where he wasn't really fully visible. So he kept his distance for the most part.

And he was directing the behavior, directing positioning in some way, the lighting. What was he saying? When he did speak.

Yeah, very subtle, always directly to Ms. Ventura. And like you just mentioned, it would always be about trying to create a better visual for hisself. Again, he's looking from across the room, so he may ask to move the candles in a way where it lights us, it creates better lighting, or position our bodies a way where he could, I guess, see whatever actions we were doing more clearly. So these were always across the realm. They were. Kind of subtle instructions. It was clear that it was based on him getting a better visual of whatever the activities were.

Did you ever see any drugs being used or get the sense that anyone in the room was under the influence of anything?

'No, not at all. I mean, just my initial interactions coming in the door. I was always offered a drink a couple of times. Ms. Fincher had what I believe to be marijuana and she would ask me if I wanted some or if I was interested in it. I think even one time I even trying to just be cordial took like a half-hearted puff of it, but that was the most I saw of any type of drugs or alcohol, and nothing that was in abundance or any cues to anybody being under the influence to a degree where they're not in their correct mindstate.

When you would first arrive, you said about a dozen encounters or so. When you first arrived, did you guys talk for a second? Was there some familiarity that was conveyed to you? Like even a, I remember you, how you been, anything like that?

Absolutely. Absolutely. It was very cordial and friendly. It would always be a period of time with me and Ms. Ventura where she would check in on me. She remembered my business. She remember the company. She would ask me how things are going, how sales, you know, I even told her a couple of funny stories about parties I had and incidents and it was just like a normal interaction. So it was a familiarity that had developed over time. And I won't say the conversations were long and fully engaged, but she definitely remembered me. I was under the impression that I was specifically hired because of her comfort with me and it showed in our interactions.

Why did you have that impression that she was comfortable with you?

That was our very, after our very first encounter, when she came out to pay me, we had a conversation amongst just me and her where she expressed, hey, look, I'm comfortable with you and I want to call you again when we're in town. And she kind of emphasized her comfort. And thinking back to it now, I probably should have got a cue from her saying, I'm comfortable, opposed to, hey I like you, hey, this was cool. Um, but it was emphasized that she was comfortable.

Where would this take place, at hotels, at apartments? Where were you?

About five different hotels. From what I understand, it was the Trump Tower, the London Hotel, the Essex House, the Gramercy Hotel, and there was another hotel on the same street as the Essex House, but I don't remember the name of it at the moment.

You said that she paid you. How much did you get paid when you were with her?

Every encounter, it was always two different amounts. Why the different amounts, I don't necessarily know, but it was either $1,200 or $2,000 every time.

Did you ever ask why there's a difference in payment?

I did not, you know, my initial encounter, I was coming here to do a strip tease. I offered 200 bucks. So, you now, to walk into a scenario asking for $200, and I think that first time I walked out 10 times that with $2,000, it was so much higher than what I was accustomed to getting paid going to these events. I didn't think twice about it. There was actually no more talk about cost or, or what the pay would be, and whatever they handed me at the end of the night, I just took and walked out, and it cost consistently over $1,200 or $2,000.

Always in cash.

Always in cash.

Who handed you the money, Cassie or Diddy?

Always Ms. Ventura, except for one occasion where we were interacting sexually. And Mr. Combs had walked over and he threw a stack of $100 bills on the bed. At the time, I didn't know how much money it was. It was similar to somebody at maybe a strip club and they throw money on the stage to the performers. And I know that money was gathered and handed to me at the end of the encounter. So that would be the only time I got money directly from Mr. Combs.

Was that the closest he had been to you when he would be in these rooms in this voyeuristic way?

Yes, yes, those were the two occasions. One occasion where he walked up and he threw money on a bed that I just explained. Then the very last encounter, it had been quite a few months since they called me, and we were in our regular scene on the couch doing the baby oil thing, and I guess he was ready to see us get into sexual intercourse, so. He walked over that time and he threw a stack of condoms on the couch and said, like, hey, I'm ready to see you, you know, uh, inappropriate language, but I'm really to see blank her. And that was, that was the closest in terms of interaction or anything said that could have been directed at me. He said it in general, but, uh. Other than that, he was always, across the room.

Up until that point, had every interaction with Ms. Ventura resulted in sexual intercourse between the two of you?

Every interaction except for the first. The very first interaction, it was just literally like a mutual massage. And I was offered sexual intercourse, but I was so confused at this point, when she offered, I declined.

Wow. And were any of these events filmed?

I have no idea. I never seen any camera. Yeah, I never saw a camera. Could it have been something set up? That was obviously without me knowing. I'm sure I didn't probe the room to see if anything was going on, but to my knowledge it was not.

And every time he had this sort of covering on his face and his body was nude.

I want to say half the time. When we got probably about a year, a little bit over a year end, this is when I discovered it was Mr. Combs by turning on the TV at one of the hotels, and it had a welcome message and said the Essex House would like to welcome Mr. Sean Combs. So shortly after realizing who they were, and I never spoke on it, I kind of just knew and just went about it as normal. Eventually, switched from having that face covering to just a baseball cap. So it made it easier to see his face. I think, you know, they probably realized that I saw the TV because when I cut it on, I kind of just left it on. So maybe they noticed it that way, but he did become a little bit, you know it became more loose in terms of him showing his identity as time went on.

Sharay, when you realized it was Sean Diddy Combs, I mean, you're a New Yorker, what did you think?

'I mean, it was mind blowing. Like it was no way I would ever thought I would be in that scenario with this person. I mean I'm a New Yorker, like he's all in my culture growing up. Like it's really over the top. And the thing that was even crazier to me was I followed him on social media. Like you know, his posts popped up on my page on a daily basis. And you know I didn't study them, But I mean, he's. I knew I followed him and there was, I'm actually in a room with him in this sexual nature or with his love interests, all this crazy stuff going on and I have no idea that this is who this person was. It was completely mind-blowing.

How many times had you been with them before you cut that television on and saw his name?

I want to say this is probably half the times, maybe the fifth or sixth time. Yeah, it was a wow. It was a Wow. I felt like a dunce.

Did you?

Yeah, I did. I was like, you gotta be kidding me. Cause I mean, literally, literally I'm following a guy on Instagram. And so when it all clicked, it was just like, dude, you got to be kidding me, man, like, how did you not figure this out?

Did they react to you knowing other than him now wearing a baseball cap and not sort of hiding his identity any longer? Did they change the way they interacted with you from that moment on?

No, no. One thing I will say, this was a very consistent routine. It went the same way just about every single time.

Describe how that was every time.

Every time was just, I would show up. I would, it would always be furniture, a couch, a single couch adjacent to like a sofa covered in sheets with in the general area would be bowls of warm water with big bottles of baby oil in them. And I would always sit in the single chair. Ms. Ventura would get on the couch and I would start out. Again, a towel, nothing but a towel. And she would start out, either a towel herself or some sort of lingerie. And it would start with some sort of mutual just putting oil on myself, her putting it on herself. Then it'll go to us putting it on each other. Then we'll start with forms of individual masturbation that would then lead to us having sexual acts. And it literally was that pattern every single time. Like clockwork.

'I want to talk about, you mentioned the comfort level, because as you know, there's been a lot of allegations in her own testimony that she's talked about not wanting to be involved in these, which were called freak-offs, we came to know this term. Can you just describe, did you know at any moment in time, was there any indication to you that she either did not want to participate in this, or that she was uncomfortable with you or in those moments.

Not at all, not at all. The one thing I will say that I realize was I never seen discomfort, but it was pretty clear that we were putting on a show. Yeah, it wasn't like, obviously I've had sexual partners, like I know when there's a true sexual intimate connection in the acts, and this was not that. Other than maybe one time that I testified to, all of the times it was clear that we were trying to make this scene sexy, we was trying to make environment, we was try to make ambiance, and it was kind of clear that, we're role playing. You know, if anything, I would describe it more as role playing than an actual sexual connection between two people.

'It was all for the performance and pleasure of the so-called husband or who you knew to be Diddy.

Yeah, I mean, that's what I was explained to from day one. Hey, you know, my husband enjoys seeing me in these sexy scenes, so you know I was there to help create them.

Did you ever talk to her, be it text or otherwise, outside of those interactions, other than to schedule when you'd see her again?

'I did not. I tried to be as professional and respectful as possible, especially when I ultimately knew who the couple was. To my understanding, I thought they were a happy couple. And this was just something that they were doing fetish-wise, some sexual play that's out of the ordinary. And the last thing I wanted to do was respect him or her by having inappropriate conversations or interactions with her outside of that dynamic, so I kept it squeaky clean as far as respecting boundaries and understanding that, you know, I'm here for this purpose and I tried to be as streamlined with that as possible.

You said they were a happy couple. Did you ever see any violence, or any violence towards Cassie from Diddy, or even vice versa?

Nothing close, nothing close. And you know, like I told you, I think because of the desire to hide his identity, especially initially, there was very little interaction with me present. You know, looking back at it.

Between Cassie and Diddy.

Yeah, yeah, like his directions were from across the room. And if he needed to talk to her, if there needed to be anything conveyed, he always got up and left the room, so he would get up and leave the room and she would follow him out. I guess they would converse, she would get any instructions she needed to get that way and then come back in the room. And even after the fact, when he switched to the burqa, to the baseball cap, it still was that dynamic where he would get up right in the middle of us interacting, leave the rooms, she would follow him out, come back 10 minutes later, 15 minutes later. Sometimes we would continue and try to pick up where we left off or sometimes we would just conclude. But all their interactions were outside of my view. They always left the room.

When he would give orders or direction, was his voice calm or was it an angry tone?

Completely calm, completely calm. And like I said, very subtle, just move the light a little bit and, you know, move, adjust your body, turn a little more to the left, you know put more oil on, tell him to put more oil on. Like, and nothing, oh, nothing overtly sexual, you know no, nothing demanding, nothing aggressive. It was just, you, know, his suggestions to what he, I guess, made his experience better.

About how long over what period of time were you interacting in this way with them?

Um, I started around somewhere in September, 2012, and, uh, these meetups went on to March of 2015.

Three years?

Yeah, about three years.

Just hearing you talk and describe it, you know the allegations here. There's conversations about violence, about force, and conversations about drug use. And you could go down the list. And from what I'm hearing, you didn't see any violence. You didn't any drug use or someone being under the influence of a substance. There was no indication that Ms. Ventura was uncomfortable with her interaction with you. But you are a government witness here. The prosecution called you. Are you surprised by that?

I am. I am, I was in complete denial of being called at all for literally up until probably April 1st. I was first contacted in March, no, I may think, believe it was May of 2024. And I really thought it was just them doing their due diligence. My conversations with investigators was, hey listen guys, I don't I don t think I have any significant information for you. You know, I didn't see any violence. I understood trafficking had to be over state lines. I lived in New York at the time and all our dealers was in New york. So I never thought I was gonna be a witness. I thought even them talking to me was just, you know, doing the proper due diligence. So me being called for a witness just kind of threw me for a loop. I really never understood what about my testimony connects to a specific crime and how it helps with proving it.

You walked into that courtroom and you are at that point sitting across from Sean Diddy Combs. What was that like?

'Um, nerve-racking, nerve racking. I will, I can honestly say I'm not the type of man that gets intimidated then by his surroundings and stuff. But I was, I was terrified and I can't really put my finger on to why. Cause I didn't expect it. Just something came over me, like an anxiety. I remember feeling like my body trembling. It was just composing myself to talk was. Was a challenge and I lucked up that I was called on about 10 minutes before lunch. So my testimony started and we had to break and I kind of had that half hour to compose myself. But without it, my testimony could have went really bad because I was really, I was not prepared mentally or emotionally for the magnitude, the weight of that situation. That was much more than I could have imagined.

When you did see him, did he look different to you? He has aged.

He did, he did. You can clearly see where there was a stress and weight loss. And there's definitely a struggle. You can see the weight on him, the weight of the stress.

Let me ask you just a few more. I'm just so intrigued by what has transpired in your experience, because I wonder what it has been like for you. This is very personal. This is a very intimate information. And although, obviously, the career that you have, you are synonymous with your sexuality as a performer, but has this been particularly difficult to have express the intimate details in this sort of form.

Actually, no. Interesting. Yeah, what went on in that encounter, based on the way I had to testify to it, was just. As crazy as it sounds, it's common, right? And my, I throw a male review show weekly and it's consistent thing for couples to show up. And couples show up, guys show up with their wives, they get dances with their wifes. And I would say over the last 10 years, it's been really common for couples, men to get gratification from seeing their women interact with other men. I think if you're in my line of work, it's something you see and it's something that is being normalized more and more. So the actual details of my involvement I have no issues with, because that is common. I think the part of it is, the whole magnitude of it, if you know it could have been done under a circumstance of, of distress, or her being forced to do it or her possibly being drugged. And maybe I'm that oblivious that she was under the influence and I didn't notice. I'm not a drug user myself. So I'm now keen at recognizing somebody in those circumstances. So I think the magnitude of the whole possibility of how this could have taken place is a thing that's disturbing for me.

Finally, let me ask you, Sharay, if you could tell Cassie anything right now, knowing what you do now, what would you say?

Similarly, like I've expressed before, there's just some remorse and regret on my part if she was under distress in any of these moments or doing any of this stuff against her will. So, you know, I would apologize to her and tell her that I'm happy that she found the strength to remove herself from the situation and continue her life in a way that is that can bring her happiness and joy. You know, I still follow her on social media. I followed her the whole time. I paid attention to her getting married and having kids and I took joy in that. We did not develop a personable friendship, but I had a very intimate experience with her. So the things that went on in her life, I followed. I thought it was great. So, you know, to see on the back end of it and it turns into this unfortunate trial and case and these allegations and just this chaotic, terrible atmosphere that came about. It's just, it's horrible to see all the way around.

Sharay Hayes, really, really compelling conversation. Thank you.

My pleasure, anytime, and thank you for having me.

This episode was produced by Paola Ortiz, Graelyn Brashear, Alexandra Saddler, and Rachid Haoues. Our technical director is Dan DZula, and the executive producer of CNN Audio is Steve Lickteig, with support from Andrea Lewis, Hank Butler, Robert Mathers, Alex Manasseri, Lisa Namerow, and Mike Figliola. Make sure to rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts. We're always checking those out. I'm Laura Coates, and I'm here for it.