The Assignment with Audie Cornish

Hey everyone, it's Audie, and this is The Assignment, and we're in the middle of what you would call the playoffs of fashion. So the Golden Globes and the Grammys, they kicked off the kind of red carpet competition. The winter fashion week season is underway. There were shows in Milan and Paris, and then coming up in New York, that's in just a few days. And then it all ends in May with fashion's Super Bowl, the Met Gala, which is the kind of event that you can't buy your way into. Like you actually can, as it turns out, because Jeff Bezos and his wife Lauren Sanchez, who are helping to sponsor that Met Gala, they've literally been ushered to the front rows in recent weeks. And like, people have thoughts, y'all. So who will the devil cozy up to, to stay in Prada? Stay with me. Our guest today is CNN's senior style reporter, Rachel Tashjian. Rachel, introduce yourself.

Of course, my name is Rachel Tashjian. I joined CNN at the end of last year to cover fashion and style.

Fashion and style, in my brain, is about power. How do you see the beat?

'It's very much about power. And it's increasingly about wealth. It's a lot about access. But I would also say, you know, the reason why I say fashion and style is because I think of style in some ways as the counterpoint to fashion. Maybe in some way is the antidote because it's much more about identity and self-expression. And I think we have those two sort of competing interests really coming to a head in this fashion season that we're in the midst of as you said.

So fashion is always about aspiration right and like what we want to look like and what we fantasize about looking like and I feel like over the last few years because of social media people have really argued about if that's really happening right as it's sort of flattened the hierarchy of fashion writing and even for the designers themselves who are now like sometimes catering to customers in a way that, like, I think they didn't anticipate. And that's been surfacing in little like sort of I would call fashion skirmishes. I don't know if you agree, but if you do do you have an example of one?

I mean, to me, it's fascinating to see the conversations so bifurcated when you are attending fashion shows. I think it's always been the case that fashion has been closed off and very exclusive, whether we're talking about fashion shows or talking about the Met Gala or even the institution of Vogue and Condé Nast. But you have sort of like one conversation that happens in the room of these fashion shows or fashion institutions. And then you have online commentary, which in many cases is more powerful and more potent than what is being produced in the rooms or the corridors of fashion power itself.

'So this year, the thing that people have been buzzing about is seeing the Bezos couple, the Bezos newlyweds, not just attending events, but attending events on the arms of some very significant fashion figures. One being Miss Anna Wintour as people know her, formal title is Chief Content Officer of Condé Nast and Global Editorial Director of Vogue, and also Law Roach, who is the super stylist, calls himself an image architect who has built up people like Zendaya into being like red carpet A-listers. So I want to talk about the power at play that we're seeing, how people try and wield fashion for cultural cache. And power and how fashion responds. Does that make sense? Because in the past, you made it to the A-list and then you had access to the fashion. Because once you made to the A-list, you could convince a fashion world, especially I would say in the 90s, that began to see actors as potential advertisements for the clothing. And it helped women close the financial gap for the on-set salaries. So maybe you weren't making as much money as your male co-star, but guess what? Between like David Yurman bracelets and whatever, modeling and fashion and the red carpet and like you kind of built up a persona that brands wanted to attach themselves to and would pay for.

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting when you think about that power dynamic with, in particular with Zendaya and Ayo Edebiri, they began their sort of like fashion ascent, both of them working with things that were not particularly desirable. I mean one thing that Law Roach has spoken quite a bit about in his memoir and also in interviews is, you know, he loves vintage clothing. And at the beginning of Zendaya's career, when they couldn't get those big kind of Dior or Margiela or Chanel pieces that were fresh off the runway, he was pulling older clothes. And he thought, OK, nobody thinks this is interesting, but I'm actually going to make this into a really interesting statement about how Zenday and I have this deeper understanding of fashion and fashion history. And we're doing something more complex with our storytelling on the red carpet.

And now, fast forward, quote unquote, vintage pulls are all the rage. Because now, in this era where the uber wealthy, there's so many more of them, as we know. There are literally more billionaires now in the US. It's not enough to get the purse. It's enough to do any of that. You have to get a full experience, so to speak, right? And you have to sell that to the audience. So Kim Kardashian can't wear a dress she has to wear Marilyn Monroe's dress. You know what I mean? Like there always has to be this big elaborate story to tell especially if you want something to go viral, which is like kind of the new currency.

Yeah, it's interesting to think about how these dynamics have changed and it because I think it comes back to the shifting sands of power, right? I mean, if it's it's interesting to think about, you know, even five or 10 years ago, a trend would have come from sort of on high, right, a trend would have been handed down. And I'm thinking in particular of the the vintage phenomenon that you're talking about. But that is really something that snowballed and became a kind of currency, became a sort of, you know, something worth bragging about because it was built up on social media. And I think that's really fascinating. I mean, I think all of the time, as I'm sure many of your listeners do about that famous cerulean belt monolog from The Devil Wears Prada that essentially explains the chain of fashion influence. And fashion simply doesn't work that way anymore, you know? It comes from people like, you know, now Law Roach, of course, is very famous. He's working with Lauren Sanchez, as we can talk about. But in his beginnings, when he just had one client, Zendaya, and he was really just working out of his apartment. And finding the cool vintage pieces that were not super expensive or that he could borrow for a small fee, he was able to build that into what is now this huge dominating phenomenon of red carpet dressing.

So in recent weeks, there was Paris Couture Week, and by the way, there's many Fashion Weeks, but this is the one we're talking about, because in a way, this was a kind of debut of sorts for Lauren Sanchez, right? Like she's been to Fashion Weeks before, they have a ton of money, we get that. But this is fresh off the wedding, fresh off an American Vogue cover, and now virtually at the arm of Anna Wintour. And the reason why, in a way, I wanted to do this conversation is, obviously, we've all heard so many criticisms of Wintour over the 30 years, for example, that she's been running, like, the Met Gala, let's say, because, like she's literally famous for being a snob, like exclusivity and all of these things. But there was, it's tinged with something else in the criticism now. I want to play something for you.

Go home to your millions, your country home, and kids. By now, you got grandbabies, but you'd rather usher capitalism's concubine around Paris. And for what? For who? For why? To make sure you land on the wrong side of history? To ensure when your obituary is written, it will say diet Nazi?

'So that is one of my favorite followers on Instagram, Blakely Thornton. He's, as he describes it in his bio, a fashion critic, timesheet signatory, petty Scorpio. He's also the host of the the Yesterdays podcast. But the reason why I played this is because all he does is distill like a weird kind of consensus that's brewing in I would say anti-Vogue circles where they look they look at a lot of things they complain about. Timothee Chalamet standing on Mars or whatever on the cover, and they think this is ugly, what is Vogue doing? But there's something about this that has incensed them, and what do you think it is?

'You know, I have to say, I was very surprised as well to see not Lauren Sanchez, but Jeff Bezos at the shows. Lauren Sanchez has gone to fashion shows before. She wore a lot of very high-end, very rare, special made-to-order clothing for her wedding. Obviously she was on the cover of Vogue. And I think you know, as I'm sure you remember, Audie, that was very controversial, controversial as well.

It was a huge deal. It was a little bit like when Kanye and Kim were on the cover.

Exactly. It was the exact same reaction, this feeling that this is not Vogue or that she somehow has not earned the place to be on the Cover of Vogue. Although some pointed out, well, it's a digital cover. So, you know, that's not as good.

That's a reach. That's a reach.

And of course, it was announced in November when the Met Gala sort of theme is revealed for, you know, the following year was announced that that Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez were, you know, sponsoring the Met gala. So we've kind of had her circling around this world for a while.

All right, talking with CNN's Rachel Tashjian back in a moment. Someone actually said that they thought Sanchez, who apparently is friends with the Kardashians, is actually pulling directly from that playbook of how to reinvent your image for the culture and in a way upgrade it into this fashion status.

That was actually in my piece that I wrote.

'Oh, wait. What? Let me check my notes. Yeah, it is you, actually. There you go. So talk more about that, because with Kim Kardashian, it was successful. She doesn't she doesn't look like she did before her marriage, obviously. And while that a lot of that is attributed to West, like it's very clear that she wanted to be in another income bracket of brand. But when you're the wife of Jeff Bezos, like what are you- you're already in every inner circle you can be in.

I mean, I think fashion likes to cultivate an exclusionary atmosphere whether that's true or not. I mean there's always another layer of knowledge that you know a person doesn't know and I would say that something that is interesting about Kim Kardashian and her trajectory which again I think Lauren Sanchez is looking at and sort of modeling herself after is that there's a difference between wearing Balmain or Hervé Leger bandage dresses and wearing Margiela Couture designed by Galliano. Now all of that sounded like babble, you know, what I just said. It sounds like totally meaningless.

We'll talk about Galiano in a minute. Talk about a makeover.

And I think to most people, there is no difference between, you know, wearing those brand names and those designers. But the reality is for a very small number, people who follow these things, who follow fashion and this kind of obsessive, I would say it's almost like sports fanaticism. You know, those are really important lines. And so to see Lauren Sanchez, who wore, for example, Oscar de la Renta to the Met Gala, which she attended in 2024, you know, Oscar De La Renta, a wonderful, important American brand, countless first ladies have worn.

I was just gonna say first ladies. It gives to me matronly taste sometimes, yeah.

Exactly. But then you have that same year Kim Kardashian squeezing herself into this tiny corset designed by John Galliano, who's sort of like, you know, he's a very controversial figure, but for fashion fanatics and insiders, he is the creme de la creme of sort of genius artist designers. He's a close friend of Anna Wintour's.

'And has remained so throughout the controversy over his very public anti-Semitism. This season he's back hanging around.

'Yeah. So there's a difference for sort of fashion, true fashion insiders between Oscar de la Renta, you know, wearing the pretty, overflowing Oscar de La Renta off the shoulder ball gown, and the extreme sort of, I think I even described it as body horror, Martin Margella, John Galliano dress. And I think what Lauren Sanchez is trying to do is cross that Rubicon, which is to most of us quite invisible and sort of get into that inner circle. And I wonder if that-

Of respect. I want to use the word respect, right? Instead of people seeing you as the trophy wife or yeah, an ex newscaster and the criticism that comes with our clothing, go ahead, come at me, I don't care. You have to come up with it every day. You're going to a new status, literally.

And I think that is why people are so disturbed by this because maybe there's a sense that you really, like Zendaya or Ayo, you have to have special taste or an idea about fashion that brings you into that inner circle.

Can I give you another theory for fashion's embrace of the billionaire class? First money. Like, let's just get that down. Like we are now in a situation where the U.S. literally has more billionaires than it did. I was reading over 900 up from a lowly 813 in 2024. So that means like a whole to people who have just had a boost. You've got the fashion world talking about VICs, very important customers, not people, customers, and creating like shopping experiences for them. And the death of a term I had not heard, which was masstige. First, just tell me what is masstige so I can check my closet. And two, did it fully collapse?

'The fashion industry for a long time has been predicated on the idea that there are these over-the-top runway shows with crazy designs, most of which are, you know, in the thousands, if not tens of thousands. And the idea was that, you know, okay, most people will not be buying, you know a $10,000 jacket, but they will be able to save up for the handbag or the pair of shoes. And the reality is that that system has collapsed. So yes, that sense of masstige of, okay, I can't afford the top level item or a piece of runway clothing, but I can afford the handbag or the perfume. I mean, that has essentially disappeared for two reasons I would say. One is that in the United States, as you're saying, there's a huge number of billionaires, but there's also a shrinking middle class and people just can't really wrap their heads around trying to afford these handbags or even in some cases the makeup you know Louis- Louis Vuitton sells lipsticks for over a hundred dollars. But I think the other piece of this is that fashion brands have made things more and more and more expensive you know the price of a Chanel handbag has doubled over the past five or six years.

Wait five years? I thought it was going to be like 15 years. Ah!

And so fashion brands are relying more and more on these VICs, very important clients or very important customers, to really puff up the profits and the revenues of the fashion companies because they're like, okay, we can't rely on zillions of people buying handbags and perfumes. We really need to cultivate and serve these clients who are going to buy the $100,000 crocodile coat.

'And will keep buying, right? We pull back. Like, you know, if you're in a certain class in the US and you reach your threshold and something happens with your job or whatever, you pull back on your spending. And what I've seen the wealth class do, influencers and things like that, through that, my people of their world, is find different ways to spend because they're not gonna stop spending. So first it was like stealth wealth. You guys are all dying in the pandemic. Well, my sweater doesn't have tags, you know, like not all heroes are not wearing capes. Like it was very hide it. And then it was like, we're back, color, we are all the way. And now it's like loud, you now, it's the yacht purchasing. It's very sort of loud and richtok- the people who are on TikTok showing their wealth, like the way they're managing is to post through it.

Well, and that's such an interesting point too, because you've made me realize the shopping, the presenting of the shopping has become an essential part of it too, right?

Yes, the act of shopping is the experience that is aspirational, not the clothes.

The unboxing of the Hermes bag that you've managed to get.

So I was thinking that since you're at the shows, the shows, can you tell me which designers you're watching that we will be seeing on the red carpet more or that are gonna like punch through in the culture because of their craft and not because of their billionaire front row.

'The first person who comes to mind is Daniel Roseberry, who's the designer of Schiaparelli. And he's had a great couple of weeks because he dressed Bad Bunny for the Grammys. So that sort of velvet dinner jacket, that was very macho with those big shoulders and the nipped waist was also by Schiaparelli. And I think, you know, it's a French brand with an American designer. Daniel Roseberry, the designer, is very fascinated by celebrity, but he's not, you know, he doesn't see it, I think, as a pure marketing tool. I think he sees it as a way to- it's a bit like what we were talking about in the beginning. These women like Zendaya and Ayo Edebiri, who are like able to augment their sense of artistry or their sense of celebrity or public profile by wearing something unexpected. And I think he understands how to play that game or make those sorts of statements.

'Can I give you mine, my person I'm watching? Willy Chavarria, he's from California. He was at Calvin Klein, which you know. I've explained things to people on the show. I have Audie-explained things to the people on this show who know about it lately. But for people who are listening, I like a good California designer and he also is not afraid of politics.

He's not afraid of politics. I mean, he's made some very pointed statements on the runway with his shows. The last show of his that I went to in New York City, which I believe was a year ago, was sponsored in part by the ACLU. That was a huge part of the narrative on his runway. The other thing I would just say is so great and powerful about what he does is that he's looking at the style of the people he grew up around, the community that he grew with. And he's saying, this is really cool and this is what people should be aspiring to.

'Yeah, the tailoring is razor sharp, especially the last show, which I was looking at online. It's a nod to some if people know any history of kind of like Chicano suiting and things like that, please look it up. But he's nodding to the history, but it all feels super modern. It definitely feels like someone who used to work at Calvin Klein. It actually looks wearable. And I found myself wanting to do that masstige thing where I'm like, can I buy a hat? Like, is that cool? Like, what could I- how can I get a piece of this experience and what this person is putting out in the world?

'It really reminds me of Ralph Lauren, the way that Ralph Lauren sort of looked at a world that was about style, the world of white Anglo-Saxon Protestant clothing and what people wear to play tennis at the country club, you know, that's really more about style than it is about a particular brand or designer. And he thought, oh, I can sort of take the codes of that and turn up the volume and make it into something that anybody can play with and be a little provocative with. And I think Willy does a very similar thing with these recognizable style codes from the Chicano and Latino communities.

All right, well Rachel, thank you so much for talking with me. Can you tell people where they can find you? Like, are you writing a newsletter? Like, what's the beat? Tell us where they could find your byline.

Um, so I am writing weekly for cnn.com and I'm also producing quite a lot of videos which appear on our website, on our app, um, and on my Instagram, which is TheProphetPizza.

All right, prophet pizza. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thanks so much to Rachel. We'll be back next week.