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CNN Political Briefing
Join CNN Political Director David Chalian as he guides you through our ever-changing political landscape. Every week, David and a guest take you inside the latest developments with insight and analysis from the key players in politics.
The Republicans' Plan to Win the Shutdown
CNN Political Briefing
Oct 3, 2025
With a government shutdown now reality, the blame game between Republicans and Democrats is at a fever pitch. Congressman Mike Lawler is from a battleground district and one of three Republicans in the House who represent a district won by Kamala Harris last year. He tells David Chalian why he thinks Democrats have just committed a critical error in their shutdown calculus.
Producer: Dan Bloom
Technical Director: Dan Dzula
Executive Producer: Steve Lickteig
Episode Transcript
David Chalian
00:00:01
'On Wednesday morning, the U.S. Government shut down. Federal employees are furloughed, many of them under threat of firing. And the off-ramp to this traffic jam? What off-ram?
Vice President J.D. Vance
00:00:12
We're headed to a shutdown because the Democrats won't do the right thing.
Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer
00:00:16
Donald Trump is causing the shutdown. This is a Trump shutdown.
Hugh Hewitt
00:00:21
The Schumer shutdown that is looming is a Democratic choice. I don't know how they get out of this.
House Speaker Hakeem Jeffries
00:00:27
Republicans control the House, the Senate, and the presidency. They have decided to shut the government down.
David Chalian
00:00:34
When Republican Congressman Mike Lawler defeated Sean Patrick Maloney, a Democrat, in 2022, it sent a shockwave from New York to Washington. The upset helped secure Republicans a majority they still enjoy today. And he's here to tell us how he plans to navigate the shutdown and help Republicans keep control of the House next fall. I'm David Chalian, CNN's Political Director and Washington Bureau Chief. And this is the CNN Political Briefing. Congressman Lawler, thank you so much for being here.
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:01:05
Thanks for having me.
David Chalian
00:01:11
Now we are in this government shutdown. Where are we in terms of how long you, in talking to your colleagues, think this may last or what a possible path out of this may be?
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:01:24
'I think it's going to last as long as Chuck Schumer allows it to last. I mean, this is the Schumer shutdown. He has reversed every previous position he's ever held when it comes to government shutdowns and is now demanding things in exchange for keeping the government open and funded. I have been very consistent and clear in this. Whether Republicans have done it in the past or Democrats are doing it now, it's wrong. It's wrong to hold the American people hostage. It's to hold to hold economy hostage. It's wrong to create this unnecessary chaos in our federal government, all because you didn't win an election and you don't get your way 100% of the time. The fact is that there is a clean CR sitting in the Senate that has already passed the House that three Democrats have already voted for in the senate. It just takes five more. And we can open up the government and avoid this entire discussion any further so that we can get about finalizing fiscal year '26 appropriations and addressing issues like the Affordable Care Act subsidies, which I have already co-sponsored legislation to extend by a year. And I am open to further negotiation on that. But I think this idea that you're just going to shut the government down in perpetuity until you get your way is foolhardy. It has never worked. It doesn't work when Republicans do it, and it's certainly not going to work when Democrats do it.
David Chalian
00:02:52
But if indeed, as the Democrats like to say, the Republicans are in charge of the House, the Senate, the presidency, given all the levers of power on your side of the aisle, is there some responsibility to engage in a negotiation to get the government back open on some of these points that the Democrats are looking for?
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:03:13
There were 13 CRs under Joe Biden.
David Chalian
00:03:16
Which I should just say for folks, that's a continuing resolution. These are stopgap funding bills that sort of keep spending at previously agreed upon levels.
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:03:26
Right, there were 13 of them under Joe Biden, and Republicans like me voted for them to keep them open. I voted for eight CRs under Joe biden to keep the government open and funded. This CR is based on spending levels that were agreed to under Joe Biden's presidency. So this idea that there should have been a negotiation that Democrats didn't get what they want in here. These are spending levels by a Democratic president. These are policy riders by a Democratic president. And all that they have done is shut down the government and frankly give more authority to the executive because there's no funding and there's not approval of programs or agencies and departments. And so the executive has a lot of leeway here. So from my vantage point, they're very stupid.
David Chalian
00:04:13
Tell me what you mean by that, more authority to the executive.
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:04:16
Well, when you don't have funding, David, how are you supposed to actually continue appropriations? When you don't have authorities and approvals of these programs, legally, how do you actually continue them? So to me, this is a very foolish endeavor by the Democrats, especially if they feel the executive branch has taken too much authority. They've actually literally just given OMB and the executive a lot of authority. So. To me, this is a very stupid thing that they have entered into and they're going to regret it.
David Chalian
00:04:52
One of those potential authorities, speaking of OMB, Russell Vought, the director, spoke about and it seemed in some of President Trump's language, he sort of agreed with this notion that there could be permanently firing some of the furloughed government workers here, permanently losing their job. Is that an action you support?
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:05:15
I don't and I said I didn't support it when the OMB memo came out, but this is what happens as a result of Democrats being unwilling to pass a clean CR. Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries and Nancy Pelosi have long been on record lecturing America, lecturing Republicans about the need to keep the government funded and open, not hold the American people hostage, not inflict unnecessary pain on the American People or cause chaos in our economy and yet that's exactly what they are doing right now. And so there's a very simple way to avoid all of this, pass the CR that is sitting in the Senate.
David Chalian
00:05:54
Right, I take that point. That's not where they are right now. When you say that you opposed that when the OMB memo came out and you said you opposed that and I heard your colleague in the other body, Senator Kramer, Kevin Kramer of North Dakota today said there's a real potential political backlash risk and spoke specifically about people in competitive districts like you potentially that need some wiggle room here. I'm wondering, have you gotten on the phone with the White House? Have you told them that that is not an action they should take that they should back off from that threat?
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:06:29
Look, I've had many conversations with the administration and with my House leadership, obviously about these issues. But again, to me, this is very easy to avoid all of it. And it is to just do the job we were elected to do, which is to pass a CR and keep the government funded and open. House Republicans have already passed all 12 appropriations bills through committee. We are ready to negotiate with the Senate and the administration. There's no reason to shut the government down while you're trying to deal with all these other issues.
David Chalian
00:07:03
I hear you. I just, you know, if you're John Thune and Chuck Schumer says, okay, but you're not going to get those votes and the goal is eventually to get the government back open and working for the American people, do you have to adjust your approach in some way to get those Democratic votes is the question?
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:07:20
Did Chuck Schumer adjust his position in 2019 in the first Trump administration?
David Chalian
00:07:29
I'm not asking about Chuck Schumer, I'm asking about this shutdown right now. Where we are right now.
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:07:30
I understand, David, but past is prologue. And so the question is, if your position is that I'm going to keep the government shut down unless you acquiesce to my list of demands, why would anybody do that? There is zero reason to negotiate with Chuck Schumer given his past positioning on this. So from my vantage point, no. And I don't think there's a single Republican willing to do that. We've passed a clean CR. It's time for the Senate to act. Pass the CR, open up the government, and then let's finish our negotiation.
David Chalian
00:08:05
Let's take a quick break. We'll have a lot more with Congressman Mike Lawler of New York in just a moment.
David Chalian
00:08:17
We're back with Congressman Mike Lawler, Republican of New York. Congressman, you had mentioned about Chuck Schumer's demands here. I mean, it seems that the one big request, demand point of contention that Democrats seem to be pointing to is this issue of healthcare subsidies on the Obamacare exchange, potentially nearly doubling for millions of Americans and millions of other Americans perhaps getting kicked off of health insurance altogether. I know that these subsidies don't expire until the end of the calendar year, December 31st, but that seems to be the thing they're asking for a negotiation on right now. You yourself, I remember in the spring, like when the one big beautiful bill was being debated, you came on CNN, you did a town hall. You had real concerns you were expressing about the healthcare implications of that bill that you eventually supported. Do you see a path where there's an actual, real negotiation for the Democrats if indeed they were to give their votes to reopen the government?
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:09:24
Oh, look, you have a number of Republican members of the House that have already signed on to legislation to extend the ACA subsidies by a year. Leader Thune is on record saying that they are open to a negotiation over this particular issue. Obviously you have to look at the facts here. The ACA subsidy was put in place during COVID because a number of people were losing their health coverage because their businesses were being shut down. They were losing their jobs. This was intended to help people through that crisis.
David Chalian
00:09:57
The enhanced subsidy, right?
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:09:59
The enhanced subsidy. It was slated to expire at the end of this year. So this is obviously a key discussion point. We don't want to have anybody get sticker shock. We don't want to have people get a massive increase in their healthcare premiums. But you don't shut the government down over this. That is a negotiation to be had during the appropriations process, which, again, the objective here is keep the government open and funded through November 21st, to negotiate the appropriations package and deal with the healthcare subsidies then. But let me just point out, there's more to their list of demands than just that, including on rescissions, as well as trying to reverse many aspects of the tax bill that was put in place. They want to eliminate the $50 billion rural health fund. And they do want to provide healthcare to illegal immigrants. And the fact is.
David Chalian
00:10:51
On that point.
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:10:51
I'm happy to go through that chapter and verse.
David Chalian
00:10:53
No, no, I think it would be helpful if you did. Can you explain to me exactly how an undocumented immigrant here who is not eligible for Medicaid benefits, who is now eligible for subsidies on the Obamacare exchange, how are they getting taxpayer funded free healthcare? Separate and apart, obviously, from showing up at an emergency room, which is going to provide care at an Emergency Room. That happens and that happens whether federal funds are there or not. So I'm talking about federally funded programs.
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:11:34
Sure, you have emergency Medicaid, obviously, which has been in existence for a very long time. And of course, the hospitals are duty bound to treat people. So right there, obviously you have people who are here illegally getting health benefits through that, number one. Number two.
David Chalian
00:11:54
But wait, that happens irrespective of this, correct?
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:11:57
I understand, but that, correct.
David Chalian
00:11:59
Okay.
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:11:59
But that does happen. So let's stop acting...
David Chalian
00:12:02
But it has nothing to do with this point that you're saying about that they are...
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:12:03
I know, so let me walk through. But I think it's important that people actually understand it already happens. Okay, so this notion that Democrats are saying, no, it doesn't, they don't get any benefits. That's a lie.
David Chalian
00:12:13
Obviously, I just stated that as a fact.
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:12:14
Two, when you look at New York State, okay, Kathy Hochul came to Congress and testified over the summer. And I asked her point blank, do you support giving taxpayer funded health benefits to illegals? And she tried to hem and haw. And I pressed her on her expansion of Medicaid in New York, okay? And what they did to allow illegal immigrants to get Medicaid benefits in New York, spending billions of dollars. And she admitted that they did it.
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:12:42
Governor, yes or no, do you support illegal immigrants getting taxpayer funded healthcare? Yes or no?
New York Governor Kathy Hochul
00:12:42
We provide healthcare to people in need, including moms with new babies.
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:12:42
Do you support giving illegal immigrants, taxpayer funded healthcare? Yes or no?
New York Governor Kathy Hochul
00:12:42
We support giving money, support for healthcare.
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:12:42
The answer is yes. You expanded healthcare access in 2024 under Medicaid.
New York Governor Kathy Hochul
00:12:42
Yes, I did. For senior citizens, for moms with new babies, and I would do it all over again.
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:12:42
Reclaiming my time, Governor...
00:12:43
So if Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries have this position that no, it doesn't happen. We are against this. Then they should pick up the phone and call Kathy Hochul immediately.
David Chalian
00:12:51
'But do you mean - you're saying in New York currently there are undocumented immigrants who are allowed to get Medicaid benefits, Medicare benefits, and get Obamacare exchange subsidies?
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:13:02
Correct.
David Chalian
00:13:03
Because that's against federal law.
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:13:04
Correct. Go look at what New York has done.
David Chalian
00:13:06
But it's against federal law, right?
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:13:08
'Well, isn't that the fundamental problem? Kathy Hochul literally came and testified before Congress. I asked her very explicitly and she admitted that they did it. So this is the fundamental problem. Go look California, go look at New York. They have spent billions of dollars. And by the way, and I'll give you another case in point, if Democrats want to talk about healthcare, Tom DiNapoli, the Democratic Comptroller of New York State just came out with a report two weeks ago about how New York spent $1.2 billion on non-New York State residents' Medicaid premiums. How is that even possible? How is it happening? And yet it did. So- If they're serious about cleaning up this program, if they're seriously about protecting healthcare for Americans and making sure that American's healthcare premiums aren't skyrocketing, then they should be working with us to root out ways for an abuse. And if Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries are so confident in their position that they are not trying to give illegals healthcare benefits under Medicaid, then they shouldn't join me in calling on Kathy Hochul and New York State Democrats to reverse what they have done in New York.
David Chalian
00:14:10
And Congressman, when President Trump puts out on his social media these racist memes of putting Hakeem Jeffries in a sombrero and putting a mustache on his face that is part of this debate that we're talking about right now, do you think that helps the cause or hurts the cause?
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:14:27
'Look, I think it's a distraction and I think obviously you guys in the press and certainly Hakeem Jeffries have spent an inordinate amount of time focused on those memes and what is on social media as opposed to what the substance of the issue is here. So to me, that's a dis- But I mean is that- It's a dissraction that the-
David Chalian
00:14:44
It's a distraction that the President of the United States has injected into the conversation.
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:14:47
Right, and you all fall for it, hook, line and sinker every time.
David Chalian
00:14:50
Well, it's not about us falling for it. I mean, he's putting that out.
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:14:53
But you're covering it.
David Chalian
00:14:54
But does that, do you think that helps?
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:14:55
You understand why he does it and then you guys fall for it. Like, to me, it's a distraction focused on the substance of the issue.
David Chalian
00:15:03
'You are a fascinating political animal to me because you're one of three Republicans who sit in a district that Kamala Harris won. Of your other cohort there, one is retiring, one actually voted against the "Big Beautiful Bill." So you all have a sort of different positioning here. You must know a Harris-Lawler voter. I would imagine you've come across one. And I'm wondering if you could describe to me, like given so many of them exist in your district, obviously. What is that voter? What is a Harris-Lawler voter look like?
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:15:35
Well, to give you context on my district, it's definitely a fascinating one. It is primarily suburban, immediate suburbs north of New York City, Westchester County, Rockland. It's home to the Clintons, George Soros. So by no means a Republican bastion. There's about 80,000 more Democrats than Republicans in the district. 50% of adults have a college degree or higher. Yet 50% a households in my district have a cop, a firefighter, or a veteran living in the household. So it's affluent and educated, yet blue collar working class. 19% of my district is Latino. I have the largest Jewish population anywhere in the country. So it's very diverse, different issues, different concerns. But I think, you know, look, primarily it's people who are very focused on the substance of issues. They may be more socially liberal and more fiscally conservative. You know, Westchester County used to be heavily Republican over the last two decades. It's definitely trended more Democratic. Rockland, you know, blue collar, has moved rightward. Trump's biggest gains were in Rockland County nationwide. And he won the Orthodox Jewish vote overwhelmingly. He did well in the Jewish communities.
David Chalian
00:16:48
Have you ever heard a voter explain why they voted for you and for Kamala Harris last year on the same ballot?
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:16:54
'Yeah, they may not like the president personally and disagree with, you know, his approach, but they appreciate the fact that I show up, that I engage in bipartisanship, that I focus on the substance of these issues. I had 11 bills passed last Congress, six of which were signed into law by Joe Biden. I did over 1,200 in-district events. So a lot of it is personal and the personal connection from me showing up. Today, I did an event in-district with about 150 seniors in a housing complex. And a lot of Democrats there asking me a lot of questions by the end of it. They said, I really appreciate that you showed up and answered our questions. That's the difference, you know, in a lot of these races.
David Chalian
00:17:36
And my final question for you on this is, looking ahead to your reelection effort next year, what would you say are the three single biggest factors that are likely to determine whether you get reelected or whether you lose the seat?
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:17:50
The economy obviously is number one. I think obviously the issue of affordability, people are highly focused on that. They want to see the economy move in the right direction. I think the tax bill, when people actually understand all of the key elements of the tax bill and recognize that they're going to see a massive tax cut, especially in my district where state and local taxes are high, the increased SALT cap is going to mean a lot for folks. And then I think a lot of these foreign policy issues, I'm chair of the Middle East and North Africa subcommittee. Obviously the situation in the Middle East is of keen interest to a lot of my constituents and that certainly matters to a lot of folks in my district. So look, there's a lot of issues. I think what people most appreciate about me, I am not afraid to say where I stand. I talk to everybody. I go on every network and answer the questions. And I think people appreciate the fact that you show up and you're fighting for them. And that's what I'll continue to do.
David Chalian
00:18:50
Well, I certainly appreciate you spending some time with me today on this podcast.
Congressman Mike Lawler
00:18:53
Thanks a lot.
David Chalian
00:18:56
That's it for this week's edition of the CNN Political Briefing. We'll be back with a new episode next Friday. Thanks so much for listening.
