podcast
All There Is with Anderson Cooper
Grief can feel so lonely but talking about it and listening to others share their experiences helps. In all new episodes of this award-winning podcast, Anderson Cooper continues his deeply personal exploration of grief in all its complexities. In moving and honest discussions, he learns from others who have faced life-altering losses. Join the community to share your story and watch Anderson's weekly streaming show All There Is Live at cnn.com/allthereis
David & Amy Sedaris
All There Is with Anderson Cooper
Jan 8, 2025
David and his sister Amy Sedaris have lived through the deaths of their mother, father and sister, and most recently, Amy’s pet rabbit. They join Anderson for a heartfelt, and at times irreverently funny, conversation about loss and grief.
Visit the All There Is online grief community at cnn.com/allthereisonline and watch the video version on YouTube.
Episode Transcript
Anderson Cooper
00:00:02
This past Sunday was January 5th, the anniversary of my dad's death. Not many people in my life remembered the significance of the day for me, but I don't really expect them to. After all, it's been 47 years since my dad died. I think it's probably like that for a lot of you listening as well. Do you have dates on your calendar that you silently dread? Dates others in your life forgot long ago or maybe never even knew? I mentioned earlier that I've been trying to spend a few minutes each day with the child I was when my dad died. Talking to him, letting him know he isn't alone and that I see him. Sunday, I imagined that child me curled up in my dad's lap, feeling his warmth. I tried to remember the sound of his voice and the feeling of safety and love I always had when I was with him. I continue to be kind of embarrassing this out loud, but it was comforting. Most of Sunday I spent with my kids.
Anderson Cooper
00:01:00
Papa's sleeping... [Sebastian cooing.]
Anderson Cooper
00:01:02
And when I put my youngest Sebastian to bed... "Yeah, everybody sleeping." I sang him the same lullaby my dad saying to me. [singing] He'd make up words to Brahms. Lullaby. So I try to do the same. [sings] And I'm even worse at singing and humming than he was. But it feels so remarkable. The cycles of life and families. I can't believe it. I have two boys. I can now love the way that he loved me and my brother. And it was a nice way to end the day that another year has so often ended in tears. And at night. Welcome to All There Is. I'm Anderson Cooper.
Anderson Cooper
00:01:55
'Before we begin, I've opened up the voicemail box again and would love to hear from you if there's something you've learned in your grief that might be helpful for others. We're going to keep it open for the next 2 or 3 weeks. The number to call is (404) 692-0452. You can leave a message up to three minutes long, but if you get cut off, you can always call back and continue your message. We may use all or some of your message in a future podcast or video. Feel free to leave your name and number in case we might want to reach out to you. We obviously wouldn't include your number if we use your voicemail. Again, the number to call is (404) 692-0452. I'll repeat it at the end of this podcast. My guests today are actress, author, comedian Amy Sedaris and her brother, author David Sedaris. Early in her career, Amy starred in Strangers with Candy on Comedy Central. She's gone on to appear in a slew of TV shows and movies and written a number of funny and irreverent books on entertaining and crafting. David has published 14 books, Barrel Fever, Holidays on Ice, Meet Talk Pretty One Day, just to name a few. They grew up in Raleigh, North Carolina, with four other siblings, one of whom, Tiffany, died by suicide in 2013. She was 49. Their mom, Sharon, died in 1991 when she was 62, and their father, Lou, died in 2021 at the age of 98. I've gotten a lot of voicemails from listeners about grief after a pet dies and Amy's pet rabbit died recently. So I started off our conversation with that. Amy, you actually recently experience the death of your rabbit.
Amy Sedaris
00:03:29
Tina. So I'd been bawling my eyes out. And I like the feeling of crying because I'm not a big crier either. But there's something about losing a rabbit. They just. That brings you down. I don't like losing a button. I don't like losing anything. You know what I mean? I have such a hard time with death, but yeah, I'm still sobbing about it.
Anderson Cooper
00:03:45
When did Tina die?
Amy Sedaris
00:03:46
It doesn't feel bad to do it. Tina died on Halloween.
Anderson Cooper
00:03:49
How long you had?
Amy Sedaris
00:03:50
We had ten great years together. I mean, that rabbit jackpot spoil sport Rotten. Both of us. We both hit the jackpot. I adopted Tina. They said it was a girl. And then four years later, I found out Tina was a boy. So I just kept the name Tina. She's a big raving queen in my apartment.
Anderson Cooper
00:04:05
And you've had. This is your third rabbit.
Amy Sedaris
00:04:07
Third rabbit.
Anderson Cooper
00:04:08
What? What what is grief like for you over Tina?
Amy Sedaris
00:04:12
Well, it's funny because people do give me that look like. Like it doesn't count. They just think it's is ridiculously crazy to be sobbing over a 7 pound rabbit. You know what I mean? They just kind of roll their eyes a little bit. But it's sad because we were, you know, he's my roommate. We live together. I spend a lot of time at home with my rabbit. A lot. Just two of us. He slept with me, played with him. And also, it's your responsibility. My dad used to say that damn rabbit hold you hostage, but they do kind of hold you hostage. Most pet do, right? Or boyfriends. So I've been really grieving about that. David found a urn for Tina, like, five years ago.
Anderson Cooper
00:04:50
You bought an urn 14 of five years ago?
David Sedaris
00:04:54
Yeah, because I bought an urn for her last rabbit, too.
Amy Sedaris
00:04:58
Yeah.
David Sedaris
00:04:58
So just always on the lookout, you know, for something that could hold rabbit ashes, you know? So it's small, but.
Amy Sedaris
00:05:05
But I have my mother's ashes in just an old candlebox.
Anderson Cooper
00:05:08
How do you feel about ashes? Do you feel a connection to the ashes?
Amy Sedaris
00:05:13
No, not really.
David Sedaris
00:05:15
I bought a house on the coast in North Carolina. My mother loved. It's where we used to go as children. Go on vacation. So she about four years ago, we were all there for Thanksgiving and we said, let's scatter mom's ashes. My mother died in 1991 and my brother brought the can down. And we we were behind the house and we were just wrecks. And I didn't expect that. But it was like touching the ashes. And it was really a beautiful thing to do as a family. And it was really beautiful to to have done it so long after she had died as well. When she died, there was so much emotion that it just would have been sort of lost in that. But it was nice to actually touch the Ashes and feel connected with her. We didn't speak. We didn't. I mean, you can't shut anyone in my family up. We did not say a word.
Amy Sedaris
00:06:10
But it was a good group thing to do together. That's I was reacting to mostly. But the actual ashes, I just. I don't know. I don't know how much they mean to me.
Anderson Cooper
00:06:20
There were six kids in the family. Your sister, Tiffany, she. She died by suicide in May of 2013. How is that different than grief you felt in other ways?
David Sedaris
00:06:30
One thing I found very interesting and I've gotten a great many letters from people who have had somebody in their family kill themselves. And people always want to assume that you feel guilty. And I felt no guilt over my sister's death. The tragedy wasn't her suicide. It was her mental illness. And there was nothing anyone could have done to change that. And so it's been fascinating to hear from other people who have gone through the same thing. Because, again, people just want to project this thing. It's already bad enough and then they're trying to project something on top of that. The figure you must obviously feel like it was your fault. But I didn't. And it's just a sorrow. I mean, I had a dream about Tiffany a while ago, but it was a Tiffany that I wished. Like if she hadn't been mentally ill when she had a beautiful and successful life. And it was so nice to see that. Tiffany And then when I woke up, I was sad and I thought, Well, that's not the Tiffany that existed.
Amy Sedaris
00:07:33
She talked at you. So whenever you talked to Tiffany, you were just wiped out after the phone call and you were just haunted by it for days. It was it was tough. And it just stayed with you.
Anderson Cooper
00:07:43
My brother Carter died by suicide and he killed himself in front of my mom. The thing that I still just can't kind of get over is the violence of it. And it is so different than the person he was. So it's interesting to hear you talk about Tiffany. There isn't this level of shock and how could this possibly have happened? You didn't have those questions.
Amy Sedaris
00:08:06
I say my prayers every night, and I used to say all the time, there's nothing we can do for Tiffany. I would add that into my prayer. Like she was alive and there's nothing we can do for her. I think we all knew at one point this was going to happen. We kind of knew that was how it was going to end.
David Sedaris
00:08:20
She tried the first time and it didn't work. And then just to think about that, your sister, you know, taking all those pills in the saddest room you can imagine in the saddest house, on the saddest street. She left these no books behind in the chaos on those pages. Like if that was your mind. I was just surprised she lasted as long as she did. You know, those were your scrambled, paranoid, desperate, furious thoughts. I mean, I've been keeping a diary forever. And so this was her version of a diary. And so curious, was it? She capitalized the letter B, but that was all she ever capitalized.
Anderson Cooper
00:09:14
In those notebooks?
Amy Sedaris
00:09:15
Yeah. Everything "b" was capitalized. But for me, it was strange because she shared a house with two other people and she had been dead for five days and no one knew that she was in there dead.
Anderson Cooper
00:09:26
You went to her apartment?
Amy Sedaris
00:09:28
I did. My friend Paul Danello. We drove to Boston and cleaned out her place. She had a room in this in this house. And I was like, wow, this was it looked like. She cleaned it up and she had a bloody handprint on the wall. Her artwork was hanging. A lot of the family photographs were torn in half.
Anderson Cooper
00:09:45
What was it like to go back there?
Amy Sedaris
00:09:48
Well, we didn't know Tiffany, so it was just like, this is where she was living? This is her stuff? These are the shoes that she wore? I had no clue who she was.
Anderson Cooper
00:09:59
Who she'd become.
Amy Sedaris
00:10:00
Yeah.
David Sedaris
00:10:02
The rest of us all bathed in our mother's love. And our mother didn't love Tiffany. Tiffany was like they were my mother. They were too much alike.
Anderson Cooper
00:10:13
Really?
Amy Sedaris
00:10:13
I think so.
David Sedaris
00:10:14
And she never knew what it was like to be loved by my mother. And when our mother died, Tiffany said, You know what? I'm glad she's dead. And to me, that was the worst, was my mother dying. Like, I don't know that life could ever be that awful again in the wake. So I couldn't hear it because I was in just in too much pain. Years later, I thought, well, every child you have the same parents, but it's a different parent for every child, really. She didn't have the same mother that I had.
Anderson Cooper
00:10:47
And were you both aware of that as kids and was she aware of that as a child?
Amy Sedaris
00:10:51
We knew that. Yeah.
David Sedaris
00:10:52
Yeah. She was just wasn't loved. It was like there were six kids and five nipples you know what I mean. And so and one didn't have Tiffany's name written on it.
Amy Sedaris
00:11:04
And think about it still every day.
Anderson Cooper
00:11:06
You do?
Amy Sedaris
00:11:06
I mean, don't you?
Anderson Cooper
00:11:07
Every day.
Amy Sedaris
00:11:09
Mom, dad, people who die, friends, animals. I remember when my mom died, I divided people up. You, both your parents are alive. You go stand on that side of the street, because you don't know what it's like to lose a parent. It just changes everything in change. And I just divided people up like that. Like you had no idea, really? Both your parents are alive and happy. You just wait. You just wait and you're getting them what for Christmas? You're getting your a CD for Christmas. She's going to die, you know. And then you're getting her that, thoughtless!
Anderson Cooper
00:11:38
It is interesting you say that because I sometimes feel like I'm the only one walking around thinking about them. All the time. All the time. Yeah.
David Sedaris
00:11:44
I think of Tiffany every day. Yep. And I say goodbye to her every day.
Anderson Cooper
00:11:49
You do? How do you mean?
David Sedaris
00:11:52
I say it out loud. Absolutely not. A single day that I don't think of her. But again, the the tragedy was if somebody doesn't take their medication, there's there's nothing you can do, you know, or if somebody refuses their diagnosis or a wish. My goodness. Like the Tiffany that I had a dream about, that that was Tiffany's life.
Anderson Cooper
00:12:20
Do you still dream about her?
David Sedaris
00:12:21
Yeah. It's always nice when do. I had a really nice dream about my mom while ago, you know, just to visit with somebody. And that's what it feels like.
Anderson Cooper
00:12:30
It just, you could feel her. Your mom in the dream. Like, feel her alive.
David Sedaris
00:12:35
Yeah. It wasn't like I dreamt that we were cleaning fish together and watching Donahue. It's a visit. It's an event.
Amy Sedaris
00:12:44
I have a lot of people visit me. They're still around in a different way. It's a hard thing to describe, but they. Yes, they are dead. You can't call them up, but they're alive. Like even with Tina, I still hear Tina galloping down the hallway or, you know, with my mom or like Tiffany or dad even. And I do feel them all the time. It's very comforting. Or you think you seen from the corner your eye. I'm always like you did.
Anderson Cooper
00:13:08
For you was your mom's death. As David was saying, it was the worst.
Amy Sedaris
00:13:12
It was. I cannot believe I lived through my mother's death. I can't believe it.
Anderson Cooper
00:13:17
In what way?
Amy Sedaris
00:13:18
Because I just thought I wouldn't be able to live without her.
David Sedaris
00:13:22
Her love. Just without her love.
Amy Sedaris
00:13:24
Without her love. Yeah.
David Sedaris
00:13:26
I mean, think it may be different with other people because they'd say, well, a son of my father's, but I never had that. So when my mother died, I was like.
Amy Sedaris
00:13:33
He was mama's boy.
David Sedaris
00:13:34
I'm alone. I don't have anybody in my corner that way. I just adored her, just adored her. And it happened really fast. She called and said she had cancer and then three months later she was dead. And I feel like my job as a writer is to get the world to love my mother as much as I did. And when I'm signing books and people come up and say, I love your mother, that means the world to me. And I don't know why it's so important to me, but I felt like she deserved the world's love.
Anderson Cooper
00:14:11
Were you able to be with her at the end or...
David Sedaris
00:14:14
No, they took her to the hospital. My dad took her to the hospital and she died of pneumonia. She just started chemo. But I remember. And so then afterwards we all went home and I remember her chemo, medication and stuff. We were so mad at it. Do you know what I mean? And just throwing it into a trash can. And my father's pulling it out because he wants to get a refund. He wants to take it to the drugstore and get a refund on it.
Anderson Cooper
00:14:40
Wow.
David Sedaris
00:14:43
[Laughs]
Amy Sedaris
00:14:45
Now wait a minute.
David Sedaris
00:14:48
I remember the priest came to the house and my mother had a jigsaw table on them. And so we were just throwing, I see you're finishing that in honor of your mother. And it's like, get out of here. Who let him in here? Just so dumb. Like, why do you have to even ruin it by saying crap like that? Like we're going to frame it, you know? We laughed so hard. Like, we just laughed so hard. Our aunt came. My mother had a sister who looked just like her and who lived in New York State. And so we didn't see Aunt Joyce that often. Man, she was Mary Poppins. And she came in and said, this is what you do. Let's get this house cleaned up and we're going to have people over. And this is what you say when they get here.
Amy Sedaris
00:15:35
Crack open the liquor bottles.
David Sedaris
00:15:36
Afterwards, I started a relationship with my aunt that lasted until her death. We saw each other and we talked on the phone. We wrote each other. And it was a nice little lesson that it's never too late to be in a relationship with someone in your family. And I saw so much of my mother in her. And it was it was a good lesson, too, to think, I can be that person one day, you know, for somebody else. Like to just fly in and say, okay, here's what we're going to do and just kind of guide everybody through it. Because in their grief, they can't see. I'm very grateful. Like with my father's death, it was more complicated, like my mother's, even though that was awful going through it, it was pure terminal. It was pure grief. And when it's complicated, then it's different. Like I don't call what I felt about my father grief in any way.
Anderson Cooper
00:16:38
We're going to take a short break. When we come back, more of my conversation with Amy and David Sedaris. And now back to All There Is. David and Amy's father, Lou Sedaris, died in 2021 when he was 98. David wrote an essay in The Guardian newspaper about it, and I asked him to read part of it.
David Sedaris
00:17:05
When a mother died, my siblings and I fell headfirst into a dark pit. Those first few days were the blackest. It was the same after our sister Tiffany died by suicide. With her father, though, it was different. By the time the check arrived at the Island Grille that night, we were talking about other things. Gas stoves versus electric ones. A funny TV show about vampires. The time Lisa ate an entire gallon of ice cream with her bare hands while driving home from the grocery store, clawing it out of the cart and with her increasingly numb fingers. Perhaps we strayed so easily on other topics because at my father's advanced age, this moment was expected. Then, too, he was lucid heiress by the second half of his 97th year. The man was a pussycat, a delight. Unfortunately, there were all those years that preceded it. The world didn't slow down for his death, much less stop. Not even for us, his family. To me, that's pretty much the worst thing that you could say could be said about you. You don't mean is that the world didn't stop for people who were in your family or people who. I mean, we were talking about other things like 20 minutes later.
Anderson Cooper
00:18:22
Do you think that was because he was 98? It was expected or just the nature of who he was and how you felt about him?
David Sedaris
00:18:30
It was who he was. I mean, with our mother that I never would have had goodness, that never would have happened like I had my father. I'm saying you're not a writer. You're a loser. And you know what? You are a big fat zero. Like, just constant, constant. Maybe it was like one of those. You reap what you sow kind of things. Now, it might have been different. I mean, Amy wasn't there.
Amy Sedaris
00:18:53
Yeah, I had a different relationship with my dad. The day that I was close to my dad growing up. He lived by example. And he I think if we lived to be that old, we're going to be like, this is what he was going through. He was still an extension ladders with electric saws. You know, at 94, he never really complained about being uncomfortable or joint pain or muscle pain. Dad didn't do that.
David Sedaris
00:19:14
No, he didn't. I just wrote this essay about going through my address book. An increasing number of people in it are dead, but I can't erase their address because I'll be on tour and I'll be at a hotel, you know, in in Chicago with a stack of postcards thinking, I'm going to send some postcards to people. And I go through my address book and I think, oh Melissa Bank died in 2022. And I think of her for a moment. And so it keeps them alive in a way. But when you think about someone in my dad's age, everyone in his address book was dead. No, he wasn't a good friend to any of them at all. My mother died. These this were old work colleague of my dad's He and his wife thought will live, will take Lou in when I come over to the house for dinner. Lou. And, you know, and then my father went over to their house for dinner one night and he tripped on some wet leaves in their driveway. And he said, my God. And he said, it's not them paying attention. Sharon's company. Yes.
Anderson Cooper
00:20:25
Wow.
Amy Sedaris
00:20:26
Yeah.
Anderson Cooper
00:20:28
Wow. Was it strange to hit 63 and to realize your lived longer than your mom?
Amy Sedaris
00:20:32
Yeah, it is weird. I'm like, this is age. She died. Really?
David Sedaris
00:20:36
I thought I was going to die at 62.
Anderson Cooper
00:20:39
The age your mom died. Yeah.
David Sedaris
00:20:40
But I remember when my dad turned 65. We were in the car somewhere, and he said, I'm 65. But I had the mind of a 20 year old. And I wrote it down in my diary. And then when I turned 65, I thought, Yeah, I have the mind of a 20 year old, too. Like, I guess you always thought when you heard you would have old man thoughts, you know, But you still fantasize. You're walking in the street and you're fantasizing one day kills things and it's so it's a shock just how age sneaks up on you. Yeah, totally. And you? There comes a day and you look in the mirror of the store and you think, Who's that old man? And you realize it's me. You know how you are. You know you're an old man, is that people call you young man. There was someone at the airport security a few weeks ago. Stepped right through, young man. And I can hear the people behind me. And I said, don't you hate her? And the woman said, I'm I'm happy to be called a young woman today. And she was like around my age. And then I thought, okay, you're dead to me. Thank you. And I just had to put my fingers in my ear. Come on through. The man.
Amy Sedaris
00:21:46
You know is thinking you're the world doesn't stop. You want the world to stop for a second when you lose somebody important. But the world just goes on and in the fast lane and you're like, you just want to scream, yelling. My mother just died. Or, you know, my dad just died. Can't we just take a second? But now everything just even when something, you know, famous people die and is on Instagram for a second, then it's done.
David Sedaris
00:22:06
You know, I remember coming back from Mom's funeral and seeing people breaking leaves and seeing people riding bikes and.
Amy Sedaris
00:22:13
Yeah, living their life didn't strangely.
David Sedaris
00:22:16
It didn't seem the biggest insult to me that the world didn't stop for her death.
Anderson Cooper
00:22:22
I ask everybody in the podcast, Is there something that you've learned in grief or from the deaths you've experienced that would be helpful for others?
Amy Sedaris
00:22:31
You kind of have to assume everybody's grieving all the time. When you're grieving, you kind of learn like just assume everybody's grieving and treat them in that in that way. Like not too many questions. Like I remember after my sister Tiffany died, I was buying an exercise band lady and I had cash. And but it was like, What's your phone number? What's your email? Are you paying with credit card? And I just snapped and I was like, my God, I'm grieving. Like, I never the questions are just I'm just going to pay cash. You know, you're seven bucks, give me the band. But that's when I learned like, and you just assume everybody is all the time.
David Sedaris
00:23:01
I just finished this tour, so I went to 45 cities and this man was supposed to get me at the airport in Washington. And I'm waiting and waiting, waiting. And then 15 minutes after he's supposed to be there, I get our call and I'm outside, and I. Black Escalade. And I go out there and I said, I don't know. I don't know what cars look like. And he said they would let me park. And I said, How was I supposed to know that? And he threw my bag in the back of the car. And then we get into the car and it's just this awful feeling in the car. And then I said, Can we start over again? I said, hello. Like, anyway, he went for it, which is good because it turned out we had to spend six hours together. And in that six hours I learned that like ten days ago his son had committed suicide. And I thought, can you imagine your son commit suicide? We were you know, I mean, I need to be at the Four Seasons. I needed to be at the Four Seasons. I'm going to have lunch with my boyfriend.
Amy Sedaris
00:23:56
You're killing me. You're killing me. Yeah.
Anderson Cooper
00:23:59
Yeah.
David Sedaris
00:24:00
But that was a good reminder that. That you don't know. You have to give people a break.
Amy Sedaris
00:24:05
I always say to people and it really helps is like, again, if you see something from the corner of your eye or a sign, just pay more attention like little signs, a pop up that can be comforting. They're out there and you'll see them or feel it and you'll know that they're still with you. And it is like you and Colbert we're talking about. It is kind of a gift, which is another thing. It's hard to tell somebody. It's like you do feel. I do feel that. It's like it just gives engine, you know, what to do for somebody else or to say to somebody else or you just the way you just see the world is different.
Anderson Cooper
00:24:39
When Stephen Colbert said that to me in like 2019 and then again on the podcast a year or so later, I did not. I just found it incomprehensible. It blew my mind. I'd never even considered that idea. Yeah. And I've certainly now come to that. It's not that you wish this happened, but.
Amy Sedaris
00:24:55
The empathy for other people to go through that was pretty special thing to feel, I think. I'm a big one at writing. Everybody said today's moms anniversary or Yeah, today I do that, like just to take a second because I mean, I write everything down on my calendar, so. Or if I'm a friends who mom died on certain day, I'm like thinking of you today.
David Sedaris
00:25:15
I think the only thing I learned is that it's not too late. Sometimes somebody dies and you don't send a letter or you don't say anything. And then you say and then you're embarrassed. And then you almost don't want to see them because you didn't do that. But it's never too late. Years could have passed and it's never too late.
Anderson Cooper
00:25:33
David Sedaris. Amy Sedaris, thank you so much.
Amy Sedaris
00:25:35
Thank you so much.
David Sedaris
00:25:36
Thank you.
Amy Sedaris
00:25:36
Thank you.
Anderson Cooper
00:25:40
Next week on All There Is, we look at how grief has changed in the last hundred or so years in America from something that used to be experienced communally to something we now hide away and rarely speak of. My guest is Pulitzer Prize winning historian Doris Kearns Goodwin, who did something remarkable with her husband before he died. You did something which I wish I had done with my mom while she was alive, which is you went through the boxes of your husband's things while he was still alive. This was a project you did together. What an incredible thing to do.
Doris Goodwin
00:26:17
And it almost didn't happen for 40 years of our married life. I wanted to open those boxes. I knew they were a time capsule of the 60s. Diaries and letters and memorabilia. He was a speechwriter. An adviser.
Anderson Cooper
00:26:28
He was with Robert F Kennedy.
Doris Goodwin
00:26:30
And Robert Kennedy.
Anderson Cooper
00:26:31
When he was assassinated.
Doris Goodwin
00:26:32
He had become his best friend. Martin Luther King had died. He'd been close to him, but he didn't want to open them because the 60s had ended so sadly. And then finally, finally, when he turned 80, he said, All right, it's going to happen. It's now or never. I was so happy, but I had no idea what it was going to mean. I don't think I thought about the emotions of it. It was the last great adventure of our life. It changed him and it made him feel better about his whole life. And it changed me. And I'm so glad it happened.
Anderson Cooper
00:27:01
'That's next week on All There Is. And a reminder, the voicemail box is once again up and running. If there's something you learned in your grief that would help others, please call and leave a message. The number is (404) 692-0452. You can leave a message up to three minutes long, but if you get cut off, you can always call back. We may use all or some of your message in a future podcast episode or a video or posted ad or online grief community. Feel free to leave your name and number so we can contact you. But we wouldn't include your number if we use your voicemail. Again, the number to call is (404) 692-0452. Join me next week for all there is. Remember, you're not alone in your grief. All there is is a production of CNN Audio. The show is produced by Grace Walker and Dan Bloom. Our senior producer is Haley Thomas. Dan Diesel is our technical director and Steve Lickteig is our executive producer. Support from Nick Godsell, Ben Evans, Chuck Hagdad, Charlie Moore, Kerry Rubin, Cory Pritchard. Jim Ritchey Treat. Ronald Bettis. Alex Manesseri. Robert Mathers. John Dionora. Leni Steinhart, Jamus Andress, Nicole Pesaru and Lisa Namerow. Special thanks to Wendy Brundige.
