Senate hearing on the Norfolk Southern train derailment in Ohio

Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle tried to get some answers about the train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, during a Senate committee hearing Thursday.

A Norfolk Southern train crashed on February 3, releasing toxic chemicals into the air, water and soil of the town. The Senate Environment and Public Works committee heard from witnesses, including Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw.

Here are some key takeaways from the hearing:

Norfolk Southern CEO apologizes: Shaw began his testimony with an apology to the individuals and communities hurt by the derailment and said that Norfolk Southern will work to help East Palestine recover. He outlined a number of financial commitments as part of that effort and said the company “will be in the community for as long as it takes.”

“I am determined to make this right. Norfolk Southern will clean the site safely, thoroughly and with urgency. You have my personal commitment. Norfolk Southern will get the job done and help East Palestine thrive,” he said.

Concerns from the community: The hearing featured several senators as witnesses: Ohio Sens. Sherrod Brown, a Democrat, and J.D. Vance, a Republican, and Pennsylvania Sen. Bob Casey, a Democrat.

They spoke about what they are hearing from constituents in communities affected by fallout from the incident and said people are worried about everything from drinking water and air quality as well as if their crops or livestock are contaminated.

Rail safety legislation: A bipartisan group of senators has proposed a new bill aimed at shoring up rail safety. The Railway Safety Act of 2023 has been introduced by Vance and other Republican Sens. Marco Rubio of Florida and Josh Hawley of Missouri, as well as Brown, Casey and fellow Democratic Sen. John Fetterman of Pennsylvania. In his testimony, Casey said he hopes to hear Norfolk Southern say they support the bill.

“It’s bipartisan — that never happens around here on big bills, or rarely I should say,” Casey said. “If a major rail company said, ‘we support these reforms and will help you pass this bill,’ That’s what I think the people of both states deserve,” he later added.

Later in the hearing, Shaw was asked if he would commit to supporting the bipartisan bill. Shaw wouldn’t endorse all of the provisions of the bill, but he said, “we are committed to the legislative intent to make rail safer.”

Sanders presses Norfolk Southern CEO on health care costs for residents following train wreck: Vermont independent Sen. Bernie Sanders pressed Shaw on health care needs in East Palestine, asking if his vow to help the community following the train derailment will include paying for health care costs for residents. 

Shaw did not make a definitive commitment, but said that “everything is on the table.”

CNN’s Jason Carroll spoke to residents and business owners in East Palestine, Ohio, about how they are coping in the aftermath of February’s toxic train derailment.

Watch his reporting from the ground:

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Negley, Ohio, resident Kathy Reese said Thursday that she finds Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw’s testimony on Capitol Hill to be vague, open-ended, and evasive. 

“I think he’s full of it,” Reese said. “It’s great that he wants to put millions into everything, but that’s not going to change how peoples’ health is. If the health is already ruined by this air and stuff, unfortunately that’s not going to help.”

Shaw was among a panel of officials testifying in Washington, DC, Thursday before the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works about the train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio. The company’s CEO began his remarks by apologizing to the communities hurt by the derailment.

“I am determined to make this right. Norfolk Southern will clean the site safely, thoroughly and with urgency. You have my personal commitment. Norfolk Southern will get the job done and help East Palestine thrive,” Shaw said.

Reese, who watched the ongoing testimony alongside CNN’s Jason Carroll, previously participated in CNN’s Town Hall on the East Palestine train derailment last month. Her home is located nine minutes from the derailment site and a creek that runs along the back of her property was contaminated.

Reese, who is not currently engaged in any litigation against Norfolk Southern, said she didn’t think Shaw answered any questions directly. She said she generally feels that Norfolk Southern “keep[s] skating around questions” without offering any specifics.

Reese also spoke on her frustration around water testing – she said she has not yet received the EPA testing results of her well water. When she asked testing officials to also test the creek and the ground around her home, she said they declined to do so, stating that they were only supposed to test the well water.

The EPA has installed “sentinel wells” near the city’s municipal well field to monitor contaminants in well water as part of the agency’s long-term early detection system to protect the community “for years to come,” Anne Vogel, head of the Ohio EPA, said last month.

Debra Shore, regional administrator for US EPA Region 5, also testified at the Senate committee hearing on Thursday. She and other EPA officials have maintained that both the air and municipal water in and around East Palestine is safe. Residents using private well water have been urged to get their water tested before using.

“EPA monitors have not detected any volatile organic compounds above levels of health concerns. While EPA is encouraged by the data, we also recognize that the people of East Palestine still question the health and safety of their community and their loved ones,” Shore said.

Despite the pledges of support and ongoing air and water testing, the train derailment continues to place a stigma on the community, with people from surrounding area hesitating to travel to East Palestine and nearby towns, Reese said.

“Even our basketball program – there was a lot of people that didn’t want to come here,” Reese said. “Our kids are suffering for it.”  

Norfolk Southern and Alabama authorities are at the scene of a train derailment in Calhoun County, Alabama, according to a Calhoun County Emergency Management Agency (EMA) news release issued Thursday. 

“Initial reports indicate approximately 30 cars derailed,” just before 8 a.m. ET in the Quad Cities area of White Plains — about 90 miles from Birmingham, near the Georgia border, the news release said.

“There are no injuries and no reports of leaks of hazmat,” and there are no road blockages, the news release said.

Norfolk Southern has responded and their “cleanup crew is on site and there is no estimation on how long it will take,” the news release stated, adding that EMA officials are working with Norfolk Southern on those efforts.

Local officials have scheduled an afternoon press briefing on the derailment. CNN has reached out to Norfolk Southern for comment.  

This happened just hours before CEO Alan Shaw testified in a Senate hearing about the February train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio. In his remarks and exchanges with lawmakers, he consistently touted the lower number of Norfolk Southern train derailments last year, and that he is committed to making the company’s safety culture the best in the industry.  

Several experts testifying before a Senate committee Thursday on the toxic train derailment in Ohio pointed to cross-agency collaboration as something that worked well during the response to the disaster.

Debra Shore, regional administrator for the Environmental Protection Agency, commended the way local, state and federal entities worked together, adding that although it was remarkable, “it should be standard.”

“It has not been about politics, but about people,” she said during the hearing on the crash in East Palestine, Ohio. She pointed to President Joe Biden calling and talking with Republican Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine to pledge federal support for the state as just one example.

Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw said getting the site cleaned up is his priority. He said the company couldn’t accomplish that without help from the EPA and other environmental groups.

Anne Vogel, director of the Ohio Environmental Protection Agency, who spent a lot of time on the ground in East Palestine, touted the commitment of local officials to connecting the community to people who could provide scientific answers and expertise.

Richard Harrison, the executive director and chief engineer of the Ohio River Valley Water Sanitation Commission, said “this was not a unique response.” He pointed to the hundreds of reports of potential spills that come into his office, and he felt the crash demonstrated how his team and system work.

At Thursday’s Senate hearing on the toxic train disaster in East Palestine, Ohio, Sen. Shelley Capito pointed to various instances of communication gaps that led to lack of trust between Norfolk Southern, government and the public.

“When I asked the question, where is this [hazardous] material going? Both Ms. Shore [of the EPA] and Mr. Shaw [Norfolk Southern CEO] said, it’s going somewhere but we don’t know where. What does that do to trust? I mean, I don’t know. Are the trucks moving or not? Were they stopped in Michigan or not? Why were they stopped in Michigan?” the Republican lawmaker from West Virginia said.

All the while, “the people living there still have to look and smell and fear,” she added.

In any report generated on this incident, communication needs to be a “key part” of the lessons learned, Capito added.

“I think we just need to get our transparency [on] where this material is going. How long is going to take it to get out? How deep does it have to go? All these questions that people are asking because they want this over. And that’s what you’re trying to do — trying to get it over, and make it safe,” she said.

Vermont independent Sen. Bernie Sanders pressed Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw on health care needs in East Palestine, Ohio, asking if his vow to help the community following the toxic train derailment will include paying for health care costs for residents. 

Shaw did not make a definitive commitment, but said that “everything is on the table.”

“You talked about covering the needs of the people of East Palestine – does that include paying for their health care needs – all of their health care needs?” Sanders asked. 

“We are going to do what’s right,” Shaw replied.

“What’s right is to cover their health care needs. Will you do that?” Sanders responded. “Everything is on the table, sir,” Shaw said in response. 

Sanders also pressed Shaw on the issue of paid sick leave for employees in a tense back-and-forth exchange. 

“You provided paid sick days to some of your employees,” Sanders said, “Will you make that commitment right now to guarantee paid sick days to all of your workers?”

“I share your focus on our employees. I will commit to continuing to discuss with them important quality-of-life issues,” Shaw said in response. 

Sanders replied, “With all due respect you sound like a politician here, Mr. Shaw.” 

“I am not hearing that commitment. Will you make that commitment?” the senator asked again.

“I am committed to continuing to speak to employees about quality-of-life issues that are important to them,” Shaw said, echoing his earlier answer.

Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw has repeatedly stressed that the company spends more than $1 billion a year in safety, but the company has plans to repurchase another $7.5 billion of its shares, on top of the $12.8 billion in share repurchases it has done since 2018. And its CEO declined to say he has any plan to stop those massive purchases.

“Will you pledge to no more stock buybacks until a raft of safety measures have been completed to reduce the risk of derailments and crashes in the future,” asked Sen. Jeff Merkley, an Oregon Democrat, at Thursday’s hearing.

“I will commit to continuing to invest in safety,” Shaw said in response to the question.

Shaw did not detail what was — and what was not — included in Norfolk Southern’s safety plan. But it is still far less than the money being returned to shareholders through either share repurchases or dividend payments.

Correction: An earlier version of this post incorrectly described Norfolk Southern’s safety plan.

Sen. Bernie Sanders pointed to a rail industry program called Precision Scheduled Railroading (PSR), and claimed that it helped Norfolk Southern increase its profits and reduce its workforce by almost 40% over six years.

Sanders said workers from Norfolk Southern and other companies told him that they are “being asked to do more work with fewer workers, and that includes safety inspections.”

According to the US Government Accountability Office: PSR is used by six of the seven largest American freight railroads, and is “intended to increase efficiency and reduce costs. While there is no one definition of PSR, stakeholders told us this strategy is associated with fewer staff, longer trains, and more.”

But railroad representatives, employee unions and shippers said told the GAO that PSR, in general, is associated with reductions in staff, longer trains and fewer locomotives to move those trains.

And all seven railroads told the GAO they ran longer trains with the goal of increasing efficiency in 2022.

“So well before this disaster in East Palestine, we have been told about the potential safety hazards. Will you make a commitment right now to the American people that you will lead the industry in ending this disastrous Precision Scheduled Railroading (PSR), which has slashed your workforce and made railroading much less safe?” Sanders asked.

Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw did not confirm or deny Sanders’ claims, and would not specifically answer on the topic of PSR, but he instead said the company has been on a “hiring spree” since he became CEO.

“The number of employees at Norfolk Southern today is 1,500 more than it was this time last year,” he said.

Sanders’ interrupted Shaw in the interest of time and pressed him once more on whether or not he would make the commitment to end the program.

Shaw did not respond with a yes or no. “Senator, in December of last year, I charted a new course in the industry. I said we’re going to move away from a near-term focus solely on profits. And then we’re going to take a longer-term view that’s founded on our engagement with our craft employees who are so critical to our success. We were the first to pivot out of it.”

Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw wouldn’t endorse all provisions of a bipartisan rail safety bill introduced in the wake of the railroad’s derailment in East Palestine, Ohio — although he said he supports “the legislative intent to make railroads safer.”

There are a number or provisions of the bill, including a requirement to have a minimum two-person crews on every locomotive, that the railroad industry is on record opposing. The railroads have pressed its unions to allow the engineers to ride alone in freight locomotives, and have conductors who now ride in locomotives be shifted to pickup trucks driving along the track system. The unions argue that would pose a safety hazard to both crew members and the communities through which trains travel.

Shaw did not address that proposed rule, and follow-up questions did not press him on the issue.

Shaw did say there are “a number of provisions we absolutely would support,” including tighter railroad tank car standards and improved trackside detectors that would alert train crews that axles or bearings are at risk of overheating and causing a derailment.

He defended Norfolk Southern’s safety record, despite a recent decision by the National Transportation Safety Board to start a special investigation into the railroad’s safety culture.

Debra Shore, the regional administrator of the US Environmental Protection Agency, laid out a plan in front of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee on how the agency plans to hold Norfolk Southern accountable after its toxic train derailment.

“We’ve used one of EPA’s most powerful enforcement tools to hold Norfolk Southern accountable and to require the company to clean up the mess it made,” she said Thursday, and detailed the “unilateral administrative order” issued by the EPA to Norfolk Southern on Feb. 21:

The EPA is overseeing that Norfolk Southern’s cleanup work is done per the agency’s specifications, she added.

About the company’s finances:  Norfolk Southern can afford to pay a $70,000 a day fine for the next 18 years with the $456 million in cash it had on hand on its books as of December 31. And a year ago, the Norfolk Board announced plans to repurchase $10 billon worth of its stock. As of December 31, it still had $7.5 billion available under that plan to spend on shares.

Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw began his Capitol Hill testimony with an apology to the communities hurt by his railroad’s February 3 derailment, and a vow to do the work and spend the money they need to be made whole.

“I want to begin today by expressing how deeply sorry I am for the impact this derailment had on the residents of East Palestine and the surrounding communities,” he said. “I am determined to make this right. Norfolk Southern will clean the site safely, thoroughly and with urgency. You have my personal commitment. Norfolk Southern will get the job done and help East Palestine thrive.”

Shaw detailed pledges that the company has made of $21 million in help for East Palestine, and $7.5 million for communities in Pennsylvania. The derailment occurred near the state line between Ohio and Pennsylvania. 

“All of this is just a downpayment,” he said. “We will be in the community for as long as it takes.”

He cited an initial finding from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) that the train was going below the speed limit for that portion of track and that there is no sign the crew did anything wrong, but he admitted, “it is clear the safety mechanisms in place were not enough.”

The NTSB has announced a special investigation into the safety culture at Norfolk Southern. Shaw defended that culture, saying safety is a priority for the railroad and its front-line staff

“The events of the last month are not who we are as a railroad,” he said.

The Senate Environment and Public Works Committee is now hearing from the second panel.

The hearing is expected to focus on health and safety concerns as well as the timeline of state and federal Environmental Protection Agency response to the incident, according to a source.

Here’s who you will see on the second panel:

Three senators from the affected states were on the first panel — Sens. Sherrod Brown and J.D. Vance of Ohio and Sen. Bob Casey of Pennsylvania.

Sen. Bob Casey, testifying on the first panel at the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee hearing, said he heard from the farming community that they are calling for testing following the toxic train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio.

Farmers “want help from the Department of Agriculture. They want certainty that their crops and their livestock are safe and free from contamination. And that the food supply and their livelihoods are safe,” the Pennsylvania Democrat told the committee on Thursday.

He also quoted a farmer in his testimony, who said: “We along with countless other local agriculture producers have years invested in telling our stories and developing relationships with our customers. The stories of working in harmony with nature to produce a superior product. This story was ripped to pieces on the day of the derailment.”

The farmer called for more testing, saying it would help build back trust with their customers, Casey said.

“The economics of our industry is very emotionally driven. Emotions are now being driven by perception and lack of information. We need testing. We need factual information. We needed it yesterday and we are still not receiving that response,” Casey quoted in his testimony.

Casey also called on Congress to pass the bipartisan Railway Safety Act of 2023 that he has proposed along with Republican Sens. J.D. Vance of Ohio, Marco Rubio of Florida and Josh Hawley of Missouri, and Democratic Sens. Sherrod Brown of Ohio and John Fetterman of Pennsylvania.

“It will be a good start by Norfolk Southern to tell us today … that they support the bill,” he said.

In the lead-up to Thursday’s Senate committee hearing on the toxic train derailment that spilled chemicals in the Ohio town of East Palestine last month, a bipartisan group of senators is introducing a new bill aimed at shoring up rail safety.

The Railway Safety Act of 2023 is being introduced by Republican Sens. J.D. Vance of Ohio, Marco Rubio of Florida and Josh Hawley of Missouri, and Democratic Sens. Sherrod Brown of Ohio, and Bob Casey and John Fetterman of Pennsylvania.

Vance, Casey and Brown are among the senators testifying in today’s Senate hearing.

The bill includes a number of provisions to boost safety procedures to prevent future incidents, including “new safety requirements and procedures for trains carrying hazardous materials like vinyl chloride,” a requirement for advance notice from railways to state emergency response officials about what their trains are carrying, requirements to prevent blocked railway crossings and new rules for train size and weight, according to a statement from the senators.

The bill also addresses the risk of wheel bearing failures by ramping up detection and inspection. It has a provision requiring “well-trained, two-person crews aboard every train.” And it boosts the maximum fines for rail carriers for wrongdoing.

The legislation also increases grants for HAZMAT training and Federal Railroad Administration research and development, as well as funding for the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration’s development of tank car safety features.

Bipartisan challenges: This rare, general bipartisan agreement about taking action in the wake of the derailment follows years of Republicans generally supporting the deregulation of the rail industry, including the broad rollback of transportation rules during the Trump administration.

Experts point out several areas of opportunity to enhance rail safety and hold rail companies further accountable: updating trains’ braking systems, shortening the lengths of freight trains, further separating cars with hazardous material, requiring more crew members to be on board and increasing penalties.

Many of these proposals, experts say, have been around for decades, and have oftentimes been diminished or entirely eliminated after rail lobbying efforts. Data compiled by the nonprofit OpenSecrets show that Norfolk Southern, the company involved in the Ohio derailment, spent $1.8 million on federal lobbying last year.

CNN’s Maegan Vazquez, Pete Muntean and Aileen Graef contributed to this report.

Sen. Tom Carper, the chair of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, delivered opening remarks at the hearing on the toxic train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, saying that while Norfolk Southern did commit money to helping the impacted residents, the ultimate costs from the disaster may exceed the immediate cleanup needs.

Norfolk Southern “has agreed to pay for the environmental cleanup resulting from the derailment. However, the ultimate costs may exceed the immediate cleanup needs,” Carper said Thursday.

“And moreover,” he added, citing an “apparent lack of transparency on the part of Norfolk Southern, at least in the early days of the response,” there are still members of the community “battling with mistrust and looking for answers.”

Carper’s comments underline the fears among the East Palestine community about the threat of long term chemical exposure from the toxic train derailment.

Some background: Norfolk Southern has so far committed $21 million to the residents and communities affected by the February 3 toxic chemical release caused by its train derailment in East Palestine. It says this is only the beginning of the help it will pay to victims of the derailment in years to come. 

Three senators are now testifying before the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee about the train that derailed in Ohio at the beginning of February, spilling toxic chemicals in the town of East Palestine.

Here’s who is on the first panel:

East Palestine is near the Pennsylvania border.

In the days after the crash, Brown, Vance, Casey and other lawmakers from both parties introduced the Railway Safety Act of 2023. The bipartisan bill includes a number of provisions to boost safety procedures to prevent future incidents.

It’s rare, though it does happen, for members of Congress to testify at a congressional hearing. The senators may be able to provide insight into what they are hearing from their constituents and communities affected by fallout from the incident.

CNN’s Clare Foran and Chris Isidore contributed reporting to this post. 

Weeks after a major train derailment and controlled explosion of chemicals in East Palestine, Ohio, many questions remain about how the train derailed and what the lingering chemical exposure could be in residents’ air and water.

Toxic train derailments don’t happen very often, but they can have serious consequences for human and environmental health when they do. 

America’s railroads move a lot of chemicals. Freight trains moved 2.2 million carloads of chemicals in 2021, according to the Association of American Railroads.
This is in large part because railroads are considered the safest mode of transportation to carry large amounts of hazardous materials, including chemicals, for long distances across the country, according to the Federal Railroad Administration.

The agency’s website says railroad accidents that resulted in hazardous materials being released caused just 14 deaths from 1994 to 2005, while 116 deaths resulted from hazardous materials spilling after highway accidents in the same time period.

Still, because trains are crossing state lines, Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine said he was concerned about the lack of information individual states have about what the rail cars are carrying.

During a news conference, DeWine said the Norfolk Southern train that derailed was not categorized as a high hazardous material train, meaning the railroad was not required to notify state officials about what chemicals the rail cars contained.

“If this is true – and I’m told it’s true – this is absurd,” DeWine said. “We should know when we have trains carrying hazardous material that are going through the state of Ohio.”

DeWine urged Congress to consider updating hazard codes for trains so that states have more information.

A Senate panel is holding a hearing now on the East Palestine, Ohio, train derailment as lawmakers on both sides of the aisle call for answers and action in the wake of the disaster.

The most high-profile witness at the Environment and Public Works committee hearing is expected to be Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw, as well as several senators who represent Ohio and Pennsylvania.

Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer on Wednesday said in remarks on the floor that at the hearing he expects, “Mr. Shaw to lay out precisely what steps Norfolk Southern is taking to prevent future disasters like East Palestine.”

Citing the “number and significance of recent Norfolk Southern accidents,” federal investigators said Tuesday they will open a special investigation into the railway’s safety culture.

The company and other major freight railroads have vowed new safety measures in response to the toxic train wreck that ravaged the town of East Palestine. The railroads saythey will revamp a hot bearing detector network. “Hot bearing” or “hot box” detectors use infrared sensors to record the temperatures of railroad bearings as trains pass by.

While Norfolk Southern has pledged more than $21 million so far in help for the communities affected by the derailment, that is only a small fraction of its profits and the billions it is giving to shareholders through dividends and share repurchases. Shaw is likely to face questions about the company’s continued share repurchase plans in the wake of the disaster, questions that he dodged at a recent CNN Town Hall on the crash.

The hearing will also feature several senators as witnesses: Ohio Sens. Sherrod Brown, a Democrat, and J.D. Vance, a Republican, and Pennsylvania Sen. Bob Casey, a Democrat.

It’s rare, though it does happen, for members of Congress to testify at a congressional hearing. The senators may be able to provide insight into what they are hearing from their constituents and communities affected by fallout from the incident.

In the wake of the East Palestine crash, a bipartisan group of senators proposed a new billaimed at shoring up rail safety, The Railway Safety Act of 2023. Outside of a number of provisions to boost safety procedures to prevent future incidents, the legislation would also require two person crews on most long-distance freight trains. There are no such regulations or laws requiring two people on the train currently, only provisions of existing labor agreements with the unions representing crew members. The railroads say they will oppose that change in the law and that they will continue to push to have only the engineer, and not a conductor, riding in the cab of locomotives.

CNN’s Ali Zaslav, Gregory Wallace, Betsy Klein, Lauren Fox and Nouran Salahieh​​ contributed to this report.

On Wednesday, FEMA approved Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine’s request for a 120-day extension to ask for a major disaster declaration for the state.

In his letter to FEMA, DeWine cited the “continuing impacts and complexities” of the East Palestine derailment, saying the 120-day extension would allow the state to properly assess the impact of the incident before requesting the declaration. 

Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw is testifying on Capitol Hill Thursday about the measures his railroad and other major railroads are promising to increase safety following the toxic chemical release in East Palestine, Ohio, that followed its February 3 derailment.

Among the steps that railroads are promising is increasing the number of trackside detectors meant to alert crews of problems with rail cars by sensing increased temperatures on the axles and cars. The National Transportation Safety Board’s initial finding into the accident found that a fire on the train originally started when a rail car carrying plastic pellets was heated by a hot axle. 

But the first two detectors it passed did not trigger the alarm because the temperature had not risen more than 200 degrees above the ambient air temperature, which Norfolk Southern used as the a point at which crews were alerted to the problem. The first detector showed a 38 degree increase, and the second a 103 degree increase above the ambient air temperature, according to the NTSB. By the time a third detector found more than a 200 degree increase, it was too late to stop the train before a bearing on the axle failed, causing the derailment.

But the new safety plan announced by the Association of American Railroads, the trade group representing major railroads, would lower the alert temperature on the detectors to 170 degrees above the ambient air temperature, which means that the first two detectors would still not have alerted to the crew of the fire burning on its train.

The AAR’s plan would add 1,000 additional detectors to the nation’s rail system, with the goal of having an average spacing of 15 miles between detectors. But the first two detectors that the Norfolk train passed after the fire started were only 11 miles apart, and the third was 19 miles away. So it’s not clear that the plan to increase additional detectors would have added any to the stretch of track ahead of the East Palestine derailment location.

Thursday’s Capitol Hill hearing on the East Palestine train derailment will also highlight the bipartisan legislation now being considered to improve rail safety. Among the provisions of the bill would be a requirement to have at least two crew members in the locomotive of every long-distance freight train. There is currently no federal law or regulation requiring a minimum number of crew members, and it is only the union contracts between the railroads and the unions representing conductors and engineers that require the second crew members.

But railroad executives say they will continue to opposed a proposed regulation from the Federal Railroad Administration and the provision of the legislation seeking to require two-person crews, arguing that having only the engineer on the train, while the conductors who now ride in the cab with the engineers, would be shifted to driving alongside the rails in a pickup truck to check for issues, would be just as safe.

But the unions argue that removing the conductors from the trains would raise the risk of accidents because the extra time it would take to check out any problems on the trains that could lead to derailments. They also argue it is important to have an extra set of eyes and ears in the cab of the locomotive.

Norfolk Southern has so far committed $21 million to the residents and communities affected by the February 3 toxic chemical release caused by its train derailment in East Palestine. It says this is only the beginning of the help it will pay to victims of the derailment in years to come. But it is still promising far more to its shareholders.

A year ago the, Norfolk Board announced plans to repurchase $10 billon worth of its stock. As of December 31, it still had $7.5 billion available under that plan to spend on shares.

In addition, last year it paid $1.2 billion to shareholders in the form of dividend payments, and it looks like it will likely pay more this year. In January, about a week before the derailment, it increased its dividend by 9%.

Michigan Sen. Debbie Stabenow, who sits on the Environment and Public Works Committee, told CNN that the situation in East Palestine, Ohio, “makes my blood boil.” 

This comes ahead of ahead of her committee’s highly-anticipated hearing with Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw on Thursday.

“It’s not rocket science when you look at the direction this has been going in, the lobbyists trying to roll back safety regulations for years,” the Democrat said, adding that staffing shortfalls contributed to unsafe conditions.

Stabenow said in essence, the company cut workers and safety in order to “get the money at the top.”

“The reality is this company cut corners, cut staff, chose to do stock buybacks that caused their pay to go up—the stockholders pay to go up—and weren’t focused on the responsibilities that they needed to be in terms of safety for people and communities,” Stabenow claimed.

Some background: A year ago, the Norfolk Board announced plans to repurchase $10 billon worth of its stock. As of December 31, it still had $7.5 billion available under that plan to spend on shares. In addition, last year it paid $1.2 billion to shareholders in the form of dividend payments, and it looks like it will likely pay more this year. In January, about a week before the derailment, it increased its dividend by 9%.

Looking forward to President Joe Biden’s budget proposal that will be released today, she said she would “certainly” like to see increased funding for railroad safety.

She also advocated for Congress to pass the bipartisan legislation aimed at shoring up rail safety.

“The safety improvements need to pass that will make the railroads accountable for this that will deal with staffing, that will deal with other safety issues, in the federal end, as well as whatever the state needs to do, we need to strengthen those standards,” Stabenow told CNN.

Third-party testing of soil transported out of East Palestine, Ohio, shows the soil does not contain any harmful levels of dioxins compared to acceptable levels defined by the Environmental Protection Agency, Indiana’s governor announced.

“None of the results exceeded the standards, which indicates the material tested does not contain any harmful levels of dioxins and furans compared to acceptable levels as established by EPA,” according to a memo about the report. 

Dioxins are cancer-causing chemicals that form during combustion. Dioxins may be found in the environment as a result of common processes such as burning wood or coal, and they break down slowly, so the source of dioxins found in an area may be uncertain.

Gov. Eric Holcomb had ordered the testing after soil from the derailment site was hauled to a facility in North Roachdale, Indiana, to be placed in a landfill.

“These results demonstrate that the site operator is lawfully permitted to dispose of that material at its site,” Holcomb said. “We have informed the EPA and the site operator of these testing results.”

Labs will continue to test samples of any future loads that may arrive in Indiana from East Palestine, Holcomb added.

A Norfolk Southern train with more than 100 cars derailed in East Palestine, Ohio, on February 3, sparking a massive fire and prompting evacuation orders.

There were 20 cars with hazardous material in the train – 10 of which derailed. Five of the tankers were carrying liquid vinyl chloride, which is extremely combustible.

The wreckage burned for days in the town, which is located about 15 miles south of Youngstown, as authorities worried about the possibility of a widespread, deadly explosion. But crews managed controlled detonations to release the chemical, which can kill quickly at high levels and increase cancer risk. The hazardous substance spilled into a trench, where it was burned away.

Officials issued a shelter-in-place order for the town of roughly 5,000 people, while the evacuation order was in effect for days for those within a mile of the train incident.

Experts have said tests show the air and municipal water are safe and allowed residents to return home. But some have reported a variety of new health problems including rashes, nausea, bloody noses and trouble breathing. The state later opened up a health clinic for residents who worry their symptoms might be linked to the derailment on February 21.

Train operator Norfolk Southern must handle and pay for all necessary cleanup, and the company has sent some hazardous waste out of state — fueling more questions about safety.

Concern about long-term effects: Last week, a data analysis suggested nine out of the dozens of chemicals that the EPA has been monitoring are higher than what normally would be found in East Palestine, according to scientists from Texas A&M and Carnegie Mellon universities.

If the levels of some chemicals remain high, it could pose a problem for residents’ health over time, the scientists said. Temperature changes or high winds might stir up the chemicals and release them into the atmosphere.

An EPA spokesperson said monitored chemicals “are below levels of concern for adverse health impacts from short-term exposure.”

“The long-term risks referenced by this analysis assume a lifetime of exposure, which is constant exposure over approximately 70 years,” the EPA spokesperson said. “EPA does not anticipate levels of these chemicals will stay high for anywhere near that. We are committed to staying in East Palestine and will continue to monitor the air inside and outside of homes to ensure that these levels remain safe over time.”

Follow a full timeline of the crash and the aftermath here.

Norfolk Southern will expand and improve upon first responder training — including opening a new first responders training center in the state of Ohio — in the wake of the hazardous derailment in East Palestine, the Ohio governor’s office said Wednesday. 

The new safety training center will aim to provide additional free training for firefighters and first responders across regional states including Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia to “strengthen coordination between railroads and first responders in the event of an emergency response,” Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine’s office said in a statement.  

Norfolk Southern will also expand its Operation Awareness & Response (OAR) program, which travels to states in Norfolk’s network and “trains first responders on how to respond safely to rail incidents,” according to the governor. Four of the 12 scheduled stops this year will be in Ohio, DeWine said.

Norfolk Southern President and CEO Alan Shaw said the commitment to more training and presence in Ohio is a “direct result” of his conversation with the governor, according to the statement.

“First responders are often immediately on the scene of a rail incident and we want to ensure they have the knowledge and tools to work safely and effectively to protect the health and safety of their fellow citizens,” Shaw said.

“First responders will be offered hands-on training in the form of the program’s safety train, which includes a dedicated locomotive, specially equipped classroom box cars, and several tank cars,” the governor’s statement said. 

The new training center’s permanent location has yet to be decided, but it will be done in partnership with community leaders, the statement said. The governor said training classes will begin on March 22 at Norfolk’s Southern’s Moorman Yard in Bellevue, Ohio.

Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw says his company is “firmly committed” to helping East Palestine and the surrounding communities in Ohio and Pennsylvania, according to an op-ed in The Washington Post Wednesday, ahead of his expected appearance as a witness at a Senate hearing on the toxic train derailment at the beginning of February.

“We have a responsibility to make it right, and we’re committed to do what it takes to help East Palestine recover and thrive,” Shaw wrote.

“I’ve been to the area five times since the accident,” Shaw added. “Many of the people I’ve met are angry, scared and concerned about the future. I understand their skepticism that a big corporation such as Norfolk Southern will do the right thing, and we are determined to earn their trust.”

Shaw noted Norfolk Southern’s work with federal, state and local officials to clean up the site “safely, thoroughly and as quickly as possible,” saying every action is taken with public health and safety in mind. 

He also discussed the importance of providing financial support, noting that the company has distributed $21 million in immediate support. “Financial assistance can’t change what happened, but it is an important part of doing the right thing.”

“There are no strings attached — if residents have concerns, we want them to come talk to us,” he wrote.

Shaw also detailed what the company will do to boost safety: 

“We will make our safety culture the best in the industry,” Shaw wrote in the op-ed. 

The Senate Environment and Public Works Committee is set to hear testimony about the toxic train derailment and cleanup in East Palestine, Ohio, on Thursday.

Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw has agreed to testify at the hearing.

In addition to health and safety concerns, the hearing is expected to focus on the timeline of state and federal Environmental Protection Agency response to the incident, one source told CNN. EPA officials are also expected to testify at the hearing.

The hearing comes after Norfolk’s trains were involved in two other crashes in Ohio in recent weeks in addition to the toxic derailment at the beginning of February.