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The Train Derailed. The Aftermath Divided the Town.
CNN One Thing
Jan 28, 2024
On February 3, 2023, a Norfolk Southern train carrying toxic chemicals derailed in East Palestine, Ohio, igniting a massive inferno which spewed poisonous chemicals in the air. In the days and weeks after, some residents who had evacuated wondered whether it would ever be safe enough to return to their homes. Nearly a year later, that sentiment remains along with anger pointed at the federal government and Norfolk Southern over what some see as an inadequate response. In this episode, we hear from affected residents and business owners about their uncertain futures.
Guest: Jason Carroll, CNN Correspondent
Episode Transcript
David Rind
00:00:00
Ever so often, our newsroom gets wind of a train derailment, and a lot of the time it's a cargo train. A few cars go off the tracks. Nobody gets hurt. No big deal. But depending on what that train is carrying, it can become a very big deal very quickly.
Wold Blitzer
00:00:19
Right now, a massive fire is burning near the Ohio Pennsylvania border following a train derailment that happened nearly 24 hours ago.
Kaitlan Collins
00:00:27
Officials have urged the entire town of roughly 5,000 people to leave their home.
Mayor
00:00:33
Those in the red area are facing grave danger of death. If they are still in that area.
Jim Sciutto
00:00:41
Officials there detonated derailed train cars to allow a controlled release of a volatile and toxic chemical.
David Rind
00:00:50
After a Norfolk Southern train carrying toxic chemicals derailed in East Palestine, Ohio, on February 3rd, 2023. There were major questions about whether it would ever be safe for residents to return to their homes. There was also anger over how the train company and the federal government handled the response. So nearly a year later, with assurances from scientists that there is no danger and promises from company officials to make things right. The question is, is anyone buying? My guest this week is CNN's Jason Carroll. He has the story of how the derailment divided the town while new safety laws remain stalled out in Congress. From CNN, this is One Thing I'm David Rind.
David Rind
00:01:45
Jason, what does East Palestine look like now, almost a year after that toxic derailment?
Jason Carroll
00:01:51
It's a lot more quiet and a lot more divided now than it was. The first time I got there was just basically right after the derailment was there and off, off and on for about two months following that, just doing continuous coverage. And it was toward the end of our coverage there that we began to notice this divide there. And what I mean, divide those who were at that time just starting to say, you know, the, Norfolk Southern was getting in there to do their best to make good on their promises to clean things up. EPA was doing their best to clean things up. And, you know, there's there was definitely a group of people there in East Palestine that felt as though the time was to stop talking and just get on with it.
David Rind
00:02:39
And just to set a baseline. What does the EPA say about the condition of the town, the air or the water, all that stuff?
Jason Carroll
00:02:46
Well, look, the EPA, the state EPA, federal EPA, has been testing the air, the water, the soil, and they have said consistently throughout the past year that their tests have shown that the air, water and soil is safe. Now, having said that, right.
David Rind
00:03:06
Do people feel that way?
Jason Carroll
00:03:08
Not everyone there for sure. And so you have three groups. Those who have left. Those who are staying because they feel like they economically have no other choice. And those who are committed to staying and committed to making East Palestine reach its full potential.
David Rind
00:03:26
So tell me about somebody who stayed.
Jason Carroll
00:03:29
We met with the Albright's, family of five. They've got three young daughters.
Jason Carroll
00:03:34
How would you define what this past year has been like for you to.
Jessica Albright
00:03:40
Hell
Jessica Albright
00:03:44
Yeah, that would be great.
Jason Carroll
00:03:45
They were happy to be back in East Palestine, happy to be back in their home. And then one of their children started having these adverse health effects.
Jessica Albright
00:03:54
So the one night she fell asleep was just like a little sparse for us. And like, her belly was exposed. And she woke up that morning with a rash all over her torso. And my middle daughter, the minute we would walk in the door within five minutes max, her nose was pouring blood. And I don't mean just, like, a little bit. I mean, she would fill the sink because she could fill the toilet.
Jason Carroll
00:04:17
And Chris Albright says he's been suffering from, you know, adverse heart conditions and things like that since being back in town. They economically fall into that group of folks who feel as though they can't leave, they economically can't move on.
David Rind
00:04:34
It's just too expensive to go find a house somewhere else. And this is kind of what?
Jason Carroll
00:04:37
Spencer's too expensive. She is still working. He's not working. He's worried about his long term health care.
Jessica Albright
00:04:45
I thought that I was going to be gone within a year or two, and that's a scary thing to face. I mean, I got a little girl in there. I want to, you know, I want to walk down the aisle and watch my kids graduate from college and stuff.
David Rind
00:04:55
And and does he chalk that hard stuff up to the derailment?
Jason Carroll
00:05:00
He does. And I asked about that. And here's the way they put it before the derailment. This was a healthy family after the derailment, that's when they've seen these adverse health conditions.
Jessica Albright
00:05:11
And on February 2nd, everybody in this House was fine. There was not a single prescription medication. And even his doctor, his cardiologist, said he'd be hard pressed to say there's not a correlation.
Jason Carroll
00:05:22
Now someone might look at their situation and say is it because of something in the water. Is it something in the air or is it simply stress from what's happened? Who knows? You can't say for sure. But, this family says the Allbright say you can't deny what they've been experiencing. Your thoughts about Norfolk Southern at this point.
Jessica Albright
00:05:46
I can't say it on TV. I'm very, very displeased with how they have handled things.
Jason Carroll
00:05:54
And again, you know, I have to keep saying the EPA has said, you know, look, we're continuing to do the testing here, Norfolk Southern, just so we are clear here, gave us a statement and they said in part from the very beginning, Norfolk Southern made a promise to make things right in East Palestine. One year later, we're proud to say we've made significant progress towards keeping that promise. And then they go on to say that since February 3rd, they say that they've invested 103.2 million into the community, including 21 million disbursed directly to residents. But it's the long haul that folks are really that are really worried about ten years out, 15 years out or longer.
David Rind
00:06:35
What about people that evacuated and has still not returned to East Palestine? What did those conversations like?
Jason Carroll
00:06:41
Yeah, that's very tough. And, you know, I spoke to one young woman who has a young son. She's been living in a hotel about 45 minutes outside of East Palestine, off and on since February 3rd.
Zsuzsa Genes
00:06:55
Yeah. So I've been trying to find a new lease elsewhere, for for a few months now, and it's just been challenging, to find the time to do it, because I'm with my son all day doing his online school. And, you.
Jason Carroll
00:07:06
Know, you go to this hotel room where you've got a mother and her young son living in this hotel room. You can imagine what that's like, trying to even trying to cook a meal in a situation like that. Yeah. Is unsettling. What do you want to do going forward?
Zsuzsa Genes
00:07:22
I want to move away. I, I'm not comfortable with the area nor the area that that was shown by the EPA five months after the fact to be heavily contaminated. That's not also not been addressed. I still don't really feel well when I go down there. It's not as intense, but usually when I smell it, I get I still get very nauseous and, I get dizzy and disoriented and the teeth pain.
Jason Carroll
00:07:47
And I asked her, I said if there was an opportunity for you to go back to East Palestine, would you want to do that? And she said, no, no.
David Rind
00:07:55
The fear of the unknown is just too great.
Jason Carroll
00:07:57
It's the fear of the unknown. And it's I think for some folks, it's not wanting to go back to a place where they. Feel as though there's no future for them.
Jason Carroll
00:08:12
Let's take a look.
Jason Carroll
00:08:15
I think of Edwin Wong. You know, he owns a manufacturing plant. Literally right next to where the derailment took place. I mean, you open the back door to his plant.
Edwin Wang
00:08:26
So in between the truck and a building, there's a big pit.
Jason Carroll
00:08:30
You look outside and just several feet away is where this derailment happened. And in fact, there's still cleanup taking place on the site of his plant.
Edwin Wang
00:08:39
Nobody want to work here. No one wants to know. No, because we got, you know, seven people sick. Okay. By working here after the derailment, they all come back with doctor's notice. You know, it's, they have been affected by the chemicals.
Jason Carroll
00:08:55
So this business here is ruined.
Edwin Wang
00:08:56
But it's killed. It's killed forever. And also, we lost, trust of our customers as well.
Jason Carroll
00:09:05
Not only has his plant shut down and he can't get workers to get in there, he can't even sell material out of his plant, because as soon as people find out it comes from East Palestine, they don't want it. They don't want any.
David Rind
00:09:18
Like, hey, isn't that where that toxic train?
Jason Carroll
00:09:20
Exactly. So every time they hear about product coming from East Palestine, you get the second question. Well, is it safe?
Edwin Wang
00:09:28
It's a beautiful dream. You know, by running two plants in the same town to service our customers better. And only one night, this dream become a nightmare.
David Rind
00:09:52
I think one of the things that really surprised me when this was first happening was realizing, you know, how loose the regulations are around railroad and train safety in this country, especially when it comes to hazardous materials. So have we seen any changes on that front in the past year?
Jason Carroll
00:10:06
No. The short answer is no. I mean, but what has come about is the Rail Safety Act.
Jake Tapper
00:10:11
Let's talk about this now with the secretary of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg. Mr. Secretary, so.
Jason Carroll
00:10:16
The problem is, even though it seemed to have so much momentum, and we've seen this before in so many other situations, so much momentum initially coming off of the heels of that disaster, it's been stalled.
Pete Buttigieg
00:10:28
Well, I can't speak for Speaker Johnson, but I am concerned about the influence that the railroad industry lobby has here. Look, we pushed hard for this.
Jason Carroll
00:10:36
And the and that is the type of legislation, I think, that that would have made the rail industry, safer. In some ways. It definitely would have put tougher regulations on how rail cars are transporting hazardous materials.
Jake Tapper
00:10:54
Isn't it true that the that that the punishment for an airline for being like a half hour late or an hour late is worse than the punishment that can be given to, a railway for a crash that has a fatality.
Pete Buttigieg
00:11:10
It can be even in an extreme situation with an egregious violation. The most that my department is able to penalize a railroad company is in the neighborhood of $200,000. I think we all.
Jason Carroll
00:11:21
Think when you hear from the transportation secretary, Pete Buttigieg. I mean, he made it clear that he feels as though, you know, their hands are in some ways tied in terms of what they can do to go after and punish some of these rail corporations. And I think there's a lot of frustration on the part of people in East Palestine because it it took Pete Buttigieg, you know, in their eyes, too long to get down there and get on the ground initially, after this had happened.
Zsuzsa Genes
00:11:50
Have just kind of been losing hope in any kind of authority figure at this point, just because we have been completely abandoned.
Jason Carroll
00:11:57
So that's for a second. They feel as though President Biden could and should be doing more. He still hasn't been down there.
David Rind
00:12:04
Still hasn't.
Jason Carroll
00:12:05
That's correct. Still has not been down there.
Jessica Albright
00:12:07
I mean, that makes us feel left behind. Not important. You know, we had a very toxic train derailment here that dumped, you know, so much, you know, so many chemicals into our system and nothing no response.
Jason Carroll
00:12:22
I mean, when we talk about the divide in East Palestine, there's definitely folks there in East Palestine who say that these people who are talking about these illnesses and talking about not feeling well and looking for a way to economically sort of move on, are folks that are just complainers.
Jessica Albright
00:12:42
People have been told to clean their house, suck it up, and move on with their lives because they weren't affected. They're not having health concerns. So nobody else should be either.
Jason Carroll
00:12:52
You'll talk to folks in East Palestine who say, look, I've never been sick. I've never had a problem. You know, these are people who are just trying to game the system. These are people who are just Debbie Downers.
Jessica Albright
00:13:02
Not everybody's body responds to everything in the same way.
Jason Carroll
00:13:07
And so you've got a neighbor who says, I can understand that. Perhaps you're feeling fine, but how can you tell me when I'm looking at my daughter, who's never had a nosebleed, that all of a sudden after this happened? It's nosebleed after nosebleed after nosebleed, nausea, whatever the case may be. How do you then tell me that what my family is experiencing is not valid?
Jessica Albright
00:13:29
I know how I feel, I know what's happened to me. I know what's happened with my family if they don't want to believe it. I mean, I could show medical records, all my results of everything. So I don't, you know, it doesn't bother me if you don't believe me. I know what it is. I know.
David Rind
00:13:43
And it's so different than a natural disaster when, you know, if you see a tornado ripped through a town, you see all the houses torn apart. But something like this, you just don't physically see it.
Jason Carroll
00:13:54
You don't, you don't. But every single time you hear that train, you really get a sense of just how present those trains are, how close they are. It's not something that you can escape.
Edwin Wang
00:14:13
Each and every time I saw the train like this running behind of my duty, I feel scared now.
Jason Carroll
00:14:21
So I can understand why you've got some folks there who feel as though you know the rail industry has done what they can. You want to go? Go. But for those of us who want to stay, who are happy here staying, you should be doing more to support the community and let us live our lives.
Misti Allison
00:14:38
You know, one year in. I was just telling someone this earlier, you know, either you can have, like, a victim mentality or have, like, a victim mentality. You can't choose the cards that you're dealt. I wish that February 3rd and the train derailment didn't happen, but. It did. So I just choose to be optimistic and to move forward.
David Rind
00:14:59
It's really interesting. Look, Jason thank you.
Jason Carroll
00:15:01
Thank you. Really appreciate it.
David Rind
00:15:10
One thing is a production of CNN Audio. This episode was produced by Paola Ortiz and me, David Rind. Our senior producer is Faiz Jamil. Our supervising producer is Greg Peppers. Matt Dempsey is our production manager. Dan Dzula is our technical director. And Steve Lickteig is the executive producer of CNN Audio. We get support from Haley Thomas, Alex Manasseri, Robert Mathers, John Dianora, Lenny Steinhart, Jamus Andrest, Nicole Pesaru, and Lisa Namerow. Special thanks to Katie Hinman and Wendy Brundage. We'll be back on Sunday with another episode. Talk to you then.
