A few days ahead of this year's Oscar ceremony, a drug manufacturer released an ad I was not expecting to see.

Some people have been using medicine never meant for them. For the smaller dress or tux. For a big night.

'Eli Lilly, the pharmaceutical company that makes Mounjaro for diabetes and Zepbound for weight loss, was discouraging the use of anti-obesity medications for cosmetic weight loss. Some said that this ad, which was titled, "Big Night," was targeting celebrities and others who take the drugs but don't really need them. Either way, I got to say, it ended on a pretty powerful note.

People whose health is affected by obesity are the reason we work on these medications. It matters who gets them.

Now, to be honest, I'm not sure how effective an ad like this really is, but the message did make sense to me. Demand for these medications has outpaced supply, so they end up being unavailable to people who actually do need them and have prescriptions for them. But I've got to say, not everyone was impressed with the ad, including my guest today.

I'm not. I'm not interested in anything Eli Lilly have to say about anything. But, I do know that, it is a shame that we have become so obsessed again with, really, like extreme level of thinness that people who do not need to lose any weight are taking medication and risks with their health to be able to get to extreme thin body types.

'That's British actress and activist Jameela Jamil. You probably know her. She's got millions of followers across social media. She's been on the cover of a few magazines, including Glamour and British Vogue. But she's probably best known for her role on the hit NBC sitcom, "The Good Place." That aired from 2016 to 2020. And Jameela played Tahani - a fashionable and beautiful character who was also a bit self-involved.

'People are just drawn to me. You know, one of my friends, I went to his name to preserve his privacy, but he found my presence so comforting that he asked me to co-host his TV show, Anderson Cooper 360.

'Jameela has also appeared in Marvel's "She-Hulk: Attorney at Law" and the film "Marry Me" with Jennifer Lopez. But her acting career is not all she wants to be known for. That's what we're going to talk about today. Over the past few years, she has used her celebrity to raise awareness about a range of issues that affect our health and our well-being, including the pressure to be thin and to conform to certain body types.

Hiya, just a quick reminder. Enjoy your food and enjoy your life and [bleep] the diet industry.

She has been called an advocate for body positivity. That's a movement that encourages people to love their bodies, no matter the shape or size. But I've got to say in talking to her, I think she prefers to advocate for body neutrality. The idea that you don't have to love, you don't have to hate. You don't even really have to think about your body that much at all. If anything, you should mostly be encouraged to be grateful for what your body can do.

I get more done when I'm not thinking about my body, because body positivity still means obsessing over your body because you're thinking, I love myself, I love myself, I love my thighs, I love my stomach. I just don't want to think about it at all.

Jameela thinks a lot about diet culture, and part of that means even challenging products and challenging people that could cause harm. She has called out celebrities like Cardi B and Kim Kardashian for promoting questionable weight loss products. Sometimes she even pokes fun at these kinds of endorsements on social media.

Hi you guys, I just have to tell you about this new amazing supermodel shake that I've been drinking. I've only been taking it for three days and I've already lost 35 pounds. And I've got abs, but I've never done a day's exercise in my life.

Here's something else that I think is worth mentioning. She actually asks magazines not to airbrush her photos. In 2018, she launched "I Weigh," a platform and podcast that promotes mental health and encourages her followers to share their stories, their ideas, maybe their activism. Today, we're going to have a really interesting conversation with Jameela to find out what it's like to challenge diet culture from inside Hollywood. I asked her about the connection between her activism and her own health, and what she thinks it really means to have a good body image. I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent, and this is Chasing Life.

When I started doing television, which is now 23 years ago. It was unusual, I think, for an Indian person to be doing it.

Yes. Same for me.

Same for you? My my mom, who's who's still alive, doing great, still refers to my television part of my life as my other job. How that other job of your thing going. What was it like for your family when you started doing this sort of work?

You know, there was always the hope I would become a doctor because, you know, Indians are going to Indian. But, but when I didn't it was largely accepted and it was fine, you know, it just I I'm, I have a very unconventional family and, and I also just sort of do my own thing anyway. I don't really care what anyone thinks of me or what I do.

You know, Jameela and I launched right into it. We talked for a while about our respective upbringings, the things that we have in common. Also what we learned from our parents who grew up in India and Pakistan. I was curious about her path, how she got to this head space where she could reliably not care what people think. I think that's easier said than done. But what we ended up talking about the most was something that kind of surprised me. Her own struggles with disordered eating, with anorexia when she was a teenager and beyond. Jameela says she's healthier now, but that whole experience continues to impact her physically and emotionally.

What has been your journey with health and weight?

God. Well, when I was younger, I had anorexia for about 20 years, and so that was a very sad and very bad journey that was perpetuated largely by our culture with an obsession around female thinness. But also, I think my desire to feel like I could control something in a world that didn't make me feel like I was, you know, the boss of my own destiny because I am a woman. So I think there was just a lot going on there that was coming out in me abusing my body. But then I've been in recovery for about eight or nine years, and I feel great and I feel fully recovered. I really do feel fully recovered, which is very rare because eating disorders, anorexia I think is the highest cause of death of any mental illness. So I'm extremely lucky. My my journey with health and weight therefore, has just been like quite skewered and quite dangerous and problematic to me. And I'm sure I'll have bone problems when I'm older because I starved myself for such a long time. But I'm doing what I can to, you know, fix it now. I'm only in my 30s.

This whole body positivity, body neutrality, body liberation movement is to say basically don't don't shame people. But when you see somebody who's overweight or obese, for example, in the United States, what do you think to yourself now given all that, you know.

I mean, I don't really think anything to myself because that person could be.

I mean, is it their fault? Is it because of the food system? I mean, I guess that's what I'm driving at.

What I'm saying is, I think anyone who looks like they're struggling with their health, whether they are incredibly underweight or they are a higher rate than their body can, you know, like cope with, then it's normally a sign that there is some sort of an imbalance. You know, as someone who's eaten far too little, I've seen that that's damaged my body more than when I've eaten too much, right? So we always focus, you know, obsessively on the one. But we never talk about the other. Like, I'm going to get probably osteoporosis when I'm older. Like, only one of my kidneys works because of everything I did to it during anorexia. You know, I've, I've got, malfunctioning digestive system, my teeth are, you know, not in the same condition they were before my eating disorder. So, I, I've, I've hurt myself far more in under eating than overeating, but both come down to our sick society. And so when I see anyone in any kind of extreme body type, the thought is never to think they they just need to be shamed. I need to go up to them and tell them to do a better job. My thinking is, is that they haven't been provided the correct nutritional information or the correct nutritional resources, and they're in a society that is perpetuating whatever it is that is leading to them, either under or overeating.

I just want to say, I'm sorry you've gone through all this and and the fact that you it's obviously you're doing well now, which is terrific, but this is something that will stay with you. It sounds like the kidney function, the osteoporosis, things like that.

Definitely. But that's why I'm so vocal about it, is because I'm so worried that other people will go down the same route and people don't take it seriously. As I said, anorexia is the highest cause of death in any mental illness. We should be talking about this all the time. All we talk about is being overweight, overweight, overweight, this, morbid, obese, this, that, the other. And it's fine for us to focus on people's health. But why are we not addressing one of the biggest killers that is right in front of us? It's because when we look at a very thin person, we feel no concern. Often we feel some form of admiration for that quote unquote, self control. We have a problem with the way that we look at extremes, where we only hyper focus on one extreme and don't pay attention to the highest killer in any mental illness. So I'm pro balance and I think, that everyone should have access to proper nutrition so they can live a healthy life.

How much does this does this occupy your mind now? Like, do you define a healthy weight for yourself.

No.

Or are you is this some...

No, I don't think about it at all now. Ever. Because I don't practice body positivity. Body positivity is for people who live in much larger bodies, where they are actively discriminated against at the doctor's, at employment, in love. Or it's people with disabilities who face the same experience. I practice body neutrality, which has been a complete, almost divorce from my body. So am like my body is this vessel that gets me from A to B, it's now basically my car. You know, I don't look at it any longer as a reflection of me. It is not an advertising billboard for other people. It is not there for them to judge. It's not there for me to judge. It's it's a vessel that carries around my brain. And now all I care about is genuinely is my brain, my spirit, and I have a job that unfortunately focuses on the way that I look. So I have to show up and present a certain way sometimes. But but that again, I feel very disassociated from my body. When I'm doing that. It's like I'm dressing up a doll rather than me, myself. I've separated my identity from my aesthetic, and that took a long time. But, has completely saved my life because now on whether I get bigger or smaller, I just don't judge myself. I just know that, okay, my body's trying to give me a signal that something's out of equilibrium if I'm going up or down too fast. Everything I'm looking at is, how is this going to make me feel?

What you're describing this, this idea of sort of dissociating like that, is it is that common? I mean, I is it common in Hollywood or is it common among women your age?

I don't know, no, I, I mean, I don't know if it's even the healthy way to be to be or not. I just know that it gets I get more done when I'm not thinking about my body, because the body positivity still means obsessing over your body because you're thinking, I love myself, I love myself, I love my thighs, I love my stomach. I just don't want to think about it at all. I would rather be thinking about all the fun that I can have before I die. I would rather be thinking about my friends. I would rather be thinking about the the world and how I could be helpful. Part of the reason I've been so ignorant and made so many mistakes in my life, I genuinely attribute to this eating disorder because I was consumed with it. It's all I thought about from the minute I woke up to the minute I went to sleep, I was thinking about calories. I wasn't learning anything about the world. I wasn't learning anything about people. I wasn't learning anything about social constructs. All I learned was calories, I was obsessed. It is a completely, destructive and overwhelming disease, mental illness. And so it slowed down my progress as a person. And so now that I'm not thinking about it ever, I have space to be informed. So I'm a little late to the game, and I've made some very ignorant public mistakes. But I think my lack of fear of those mistakes is what I hope is inspiring to people. Because it is never too late to grow and change and to change your mind and to do better.

Yeah, look, I'm already learning a lot. Just. Just listening to you. I didn't I didn't know all of this about you. I mean, just on a day to day basis, do you follow a particular diet or exercise routine or?

No. I walk an hour a day with my dogs, religiously, pretty much. And so walking is, that's the only exercise I do because I don't I don't really enjoy a lot of exercise, but I'm working on finding more enjoyable ways to move my body because I need to stop strength training so that I can build up my bone density again. And when I'm in America, I eat much more healthily than I do in any other country, because the food here is a really big problem. So I'm eating more, you know, organic and having to research the farms that I get it from. I don't have to do this in any other country.

After the break, the connection between food and mental health. Jameela Jamil's take on that.

What every individual does to themselves is fine, but don't profit off of this incredibly misogynistic ideal of what women are supposed to look like. We're obsessed with young women. Obsessed!

I'm curious about the podcast, the "I Weigh" podcast. How did that come about?

Well, the "I Weigh" podcast was just sort of a natural progression of what had been a groundswell movement that was not going away. I started the "I Weigh" movement in 2018, you know, from the back of a tour bus with PMS where one day I got pissed off about the way that women were undervalued, and I tweeted about it and it became viral, and I presumed it would only stay viral for a week at best. And then after two and a half years, it was still viral and people were still talking about it, and we were just growing and millions and millions of followers. And so I felt like it made sense to now turn this into something substantial. And when you're taking on the internet, you better have, you better be ready to kill them with the facts. And I wasn't. So I figured that the podcast would be a great way to learn publicly. It's ridiculous the way that we demonize people who still have something to learn, the way that we demonize mistakes, where we make people even afraid to admit that they need to learn something. So then they don't delve into the subject at all. They just completely stay out of it. I wanted to be an example of someone who wasn't afraid to learn, who wasn't afraid to own up to my ignorance. And and I felt like we could learn as a community. And so I tried to create that safe space.

Was there a particular message or a particular theme you really because it's a big topic, was there something in particular you really wanted to explore via the podcast?

I would say that the leading subject that guides my heart is mental health, right? I think that that is the foundation of of every trial and tribulation that humanity experiences. I think if people had better mental health, we would have less dictators, less fascists. I think there would be less wars between the genders. I think there would be less racism, less bigotry. I think that there is a direct correlation between, the declining mental health of our society and the increase in violence, violence against the self. You know, I guess maybe the my early years of having wanted to be a doctor has trained me to look for the cause and not obsess over the symptoms. And I think the cause is our happiness and our mental health and our mental stability. And our governments around the world are making it almost impossible for us to have mental stability, because we are so stressed and trying so hard to survive. And we exist in such a scarcity mindset that it's impossible for people to be balanced.

And I should point out that you've been talking about this for a while. A few years ago, you asked a magazine not to airbrush your your, photos. Which, you know, I like, I applaud that, I really do, but I also imagine, maybe it's hard because people see those photographs and you, you realize that they're being compared to other airbrushed photographs. Right. So that becomes the norm.

Yeah. But it's just for my brain. If I see I generally tell everyone to airbrush me, like I tell everyone not to airbrush me. Magazines, posters, Marvel, "The Good Place," Vogue. I can't 100% control it, but generally it's it's on all my like TV contracts etcetera, because, because it's bad for me to see that perfect version of myself, that flawless, unwrinkled version of myself with no discolorations in the skin and no overhang when I wear a strapless dress, even though I've got big boobs, I don't. I don't like when people airbrush out my stretchmarks it's like, I have to live with those stretch marks. I have to live with that flabby upper arm. I have to live with that nose. Interesting. Well, those wrinkles. So don't make me like, don't don't advertise a version of that that doesn't exist. A version of me that doesn't exist. Because then what you're saying, A is that the way that I show up in life is not good enough, and you had to erase it, but by then I'm naturally going to compare myself to that image, and I'm going to feel embarrassed when I meet people in real life. If this perfect image of me is put out into the world. So it's not a noble crusade, it's I'm just protecting my mental health. I don't want to see images of what I could look like if I were more attractive and perfect. That's not good for anyone. Look at the rise in the mental health statistics. Look at the rise in eating disorders. Look at the rise in teenagers wanting plastic surgery like this, the Snapchat filter that they bring in all the time to plastic surgeons saying, I want to look like this.

I've been on the podcast talking a lot about these weight loss medications. The Ozempics, Wegovys, Mounjaros. What what do you think about those those medications?

It is a shame that we have become so obsessed again with, really like extreme level of thinness that people who do not need to lose any weight, taking medication and risks with their health to be able to get to extreme thin body types. It was very prevalent at, Fashion Week. You know, I went to Paris and Milan and New York and London Fashion Week, and the models were thinner than they've been in years, and there were less plus size models walking the runway and the actresses and the models sitting, you know, front row were all emaciated in a way that I haven't seen probably in ten years. So it's definitely, there's definitely been an impact from that that I think has not been health focused. It's been very as that extreme aesthetic focus that worries me.

When you've talked about "I Weigh" the mission statement, you say it's more than a podcast. It's a community allyship sort of platform. How how do you describe the "I Weigh" community? Who are they?

Oh, they're just a bunch of people who are frustrated with the way things are. They are people who have liberal values but do not wish to go about it by demonizing themselves or demonizing other people for not being perfect. My audience are very cool, and I'm surprised there are so many of them, who are on this journey with me. And, and it just shows me that it is the silent majority who, who do not behave like some of the, the, the loud and rude people who represent us online. And by the way, I was one of those people. I was that loud, judgmental, rude, you know, liberal public speaker who who spoke down to people and did not offer people enough grace. I was being called the feminist hero we need. I made time magazine's 25 most influential list, and so I was so heavily decorated for my sort of no filter, you know, approach to speaking about injustice. And, and I look back now and I, I cringe around the time of the pandemic, I looked at how people were speaking to each other, and I hated it. And so I've spent the last 3 or 4 years trying to roll that back and become part of unifying people rather than pushing them further apart.

Is that is it challenging? I mean, you know, you you have these things to say. There's, I guess a, a a eloquent or empathetic way to say these things, but they need to be said. Sounds like that. That's what you're getting at.

They need to be said but they could be said. I still say the same things. I just say it in a slightly more elegant way now, and I find that I am able to reach much more people because now they don't feel attacked by me. All I'm saying is that it can easily change who we see as us versus them. It also means that there's a lot of hope in how we could stop seeing each other as them, and we could come together. It's just down to how we deliver the information, and I think that's why comedy and kindness is more effective than screaming at people and telling them that they're inherently evil. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Look. Amen to that. The emotional centers of our brain get fired up really quickly, really easily. And the judgment parts of our brain, they take a little longer to come along. But, but that that aside, I am curious. Like, if you think about the "I Weigh" community, the "I Weigh" movement which you have, you know, you started that you are a, I guess, conventionally beautiful woman, slender woman, and people who don't know about your your background, your health background, as we were just talking about, do they do they question why you are the person who should be at the forefront of a movement like this?

They do, and they should, And they must. I'm open to being questioned on that. I feel very confident that my story stands up and and that with time, people will be able to see my work. I think when I first came out in 2018, you know, as Tahani, as this glamourus actress, I think people had a lot more doubt back then, and they felt like I was doing this to jump on a quick bandwagon to make a name for myself. And now, six years later, I'm still in it. I'm still doing it. I'm still fighting for people's rights. I'm still taking huge risks and still sacrificing my own career to have these conversations publicly.

None of this is easy. She has to balance all these things her platforms, the community she's organizing, how her messaging comes across, the conversations she's having are connected. They're complex, they're nuanced. But there is a common theme, and that is the food we are putting into our bodies. As much as we may try, if most of the food choices we actually have are not healthy, the odds become very stacked against us.

The food in America is incredibly toxic. There are so many things that are banned in Europe, as in like the same product, the the version, the American version is banned in Europe and there's way less chemicals, way less, you know, preservatives. And so I also think that the people are being poisoned, literally, you know, from a place of, I guess, profit, you know, because not not as in like, it's not to deliberately poison people, but it's in order to sell food that lasts a long time and mass produce food, and then how much time they're spending on screens and how addictive everything is designed to be, and how much we don't encourage people to get out, to exercise, how expensive we've made exercise culture, how exclusionary we have made looking after yourself, how much more expensive organic food is versus like processed food that can sit in your freezer for two years.

I'd like to take a quick pause here and just add a little bit of context. It is true that many food items sold in the United States do contain additives, and some of these chemicals have been banned in other countries. Certain dyes, flavor enhancers, sweeteners, especially those in ultra processed foods. Scientists are still working to determine how exactly these additives affect our health, especially the ones that she's talking about in those ultra processed foods.

This isn't something that we can't do something about. This isn't happening to us. We are just as a people, not feeling aligned with each other enough to stop staring at each other and start looking at the government and being like, oy! What are you doing? And so I do think that, like, part of what I care about is making sure that people don't feel, you know, as though this is just something we can't do something about. We just can't do it while we're nit picking ourselves and nit picking each other.

If you do more with this, count me in. Especially on the food part. Most of that has to do with how we nourish ourselves or not nourish ourselves that well. It's really striking. And you're right. We should not shrug your shoulders that it is a fixable problem. The fact that it costs...

Yeah, I don't want to look back on this in a hundred years and be like, what a shame! I want to fight it now.

You've challenged a diet industry of diet culture in a thoughtful and compassionate way. I mean, I think, look, I think out of all the things that bring us purpose in life, I imagine this will be something you look back on and say, yeah, I'm really, really glad that I did that.

Yeah, I'm glad I did that. What every individual does to themselves is fine, but don't profit off of this incredibly misogynistic, ideal of what women are supposed to look like. We're obsessed with young women, obsessed! To the point where we expect all women of all ages to emulate the face and the body of a young woman eternally. We see no value in a woman with age, or with a woman with experience. If anything, with every year I recognize my value increases. With every year I feel stronger, I feel smarter, I feel more confident. I feel more optimistic. I feel less anxious. I love growing older, and I find it hysterical that I am now at an age that when I was younger, I thought would make me invisible. In the next few years I might be entering perimenopause. Things are going to change, but the only thing I can control is what I am putting in and making sure it is as nutritious as possible, and also delicious because my God, we deserve some pleasure in this terrible world.

I'm inspired by it. Thank you.

Oh, that's very, that's very kind. Listen, there's lots of important things to work on in this life. And I finally learned how to recognize what my corner is and stop trying to fight every single cause for every single person, because it means I'm spread too thin. So I think I found my place within mental health, and and everything I work on is a kind of offshoot of that. And that's where I'm gonna stay.

Sounds like a good plan to me. I know that this conversation already has me thinking about those connections between food quality, body image, how we nourish ourselves, and how all of that affects our mental health. So thank you, Jameela, for coming on the show to share your experiences and share your work. Next week we're talking about the Joy of food with Dr. Linda Shiue. She's a physician and she's a chef, and she wants to remind people, no matter what their health or weight goals are, to see food as a source of joy. And she's going to share some tips on how to find that perfect balance between nutrition and satisfaction.

Food has to be a flavor first. None of us will eat food that is good for us from a health sense if we don't want it.

Chasing life is a production of CNN audio. Our podcast is produced by Eryn Mathewson. Jennifer Lai and Grace Walker, our senior producer and showrunner is Felicia Patinkin. Andrea Kane as our medical writer, and Tommy Bazarian is our engineer. Dan De Zula is our technical director and the executive producer of CNN Audio is Steve Lichteig. With support from James Andress, John De and Nora Haley Thomas, Alex Mansouri, Robert Mathers, Leni Steinhardt, Nichole Pesaru, and Lisa Namaro. Special thanks to Ben Tinker, Amanda Sealey, and Nadia Kounang of CNN Health and Katie Hinman.