special
The James Brown Mystery
A strange phone call reveals a question from the grave – was The Godfather of Soul murdered? Almost 40 years ago, a songwriter found herself in musician James Brown’s inner circle. The relationship would nearly destroy her career. Decades later, she’s trying to solve the mystery of James Brown's death…and her own life. When she makes a call to CNN reporter Thomas Lake, the two stumble into a world of secrets, intimidation, and suspected foul play.
They Got Me
The James Brown Mystery
Dec 2, 2022
Jacque Hollander takes the duffel bag to a prosecutor in Georgia who agrees to look into the circumstances of James Brown’s death. We learn that right before he died, the Godfather of Soul wanted to move to New York City. But one member of Brown’s inner circle doesn't want him to leave South Carolina. Thomas Lake digs deeper into Brown’s closest advisors to find out why, and flies to California to talk with a woman who may know more about Brown’s last moments alive.
Episode Transcript
Thomas Lake
00:00:02
Previously on the James Brown Mystery:
Jacque Hollander
00:00:06
I was physically sick to my stomach and I wanted to get away from her.
Candice Hurst
00:00:10
I did not kill James Brown. I wanted the best for him. I loved him. I wouldn't hurt a hair on his head.
Thomas Lake
00:00:16
And we learn about a duffle bag containing things from the Godfather of Soul's last days alive. In that bag? A shoe that unexpectedly tests positive for a prescription drug.
Marvin Crawford
00:00:29
The Diltiazem on her shoe, the marijuana and the cocaine, it fits our picture. Of being highly suspicious that somebody perhaps could have given him an illicit substance that led to his death
Thomas Lake
00:00:44
Despite being told to throw the duffel bag in the lake, Jacque makes an appointment to bring it to a prosecutor in Atlanta.
Jacque Hollander
00:00:59
I have a half tank of gas. I should be okay to get down there, right? Yes.
Thomas Lake
00:01:03
It's February 2020 as Jacque Hollander drives to the district attorney's office in Atlanta. Jacque turns on the car stereo. It's a song by Frank Sinatra called Drinking Again.
Jacque Hollander
00:01:15
You know, I don't drink, but I think after this thing is over, I may down a bottle of beer or something, just to be able to freaking unwind something. I don't know.
Thomas Lake
00:01:29
The stakes are very high today. This is Jacque's first chance, maybe her only chance to sit down face to face with law enforcement and tell them what she believes about James Brown's death.
Jacque Hollander
00:01:42
Right now, I miss my elephants, my circus, the simplicity of life. Just give me a clown.
Thomas Lake
00:01:52
Jacque and I get out of her car and go into the DA's office. She's brought along the green plastic bin, the one she refused to throw in a lake, the one she's convinced is full of evidence relating to James Brown's death. As Jacque nervously waits for the prosecutor, she rests her elbows on the green bin, bows her head and closes her eyes. When District Attorney Paul Howard appears. Jacque snaps to attention and thanks him profusely for meeting with her.
Jacque Hollander
00:02:20
You, sir, are just wonderful for what you have done for me.
Thomas Lake
00:02:26
Howard is polite and businesslike and he gets right to the point.
DA Paul Howard
00:02:30
So as I understand it, this concerns the death of James Brown.
Jacque Hollander
00:02:34
That is correct.
DA Paul Howard
00:02:36
And if it was not a natural death, do you know what caused the death?
Jacque Hollander
00:02:42
I believe I do, sir.
DA Paul Howard
00:02:43
Okay. Now, what do you believe caused the death?
Jacque Hollander
00:02:46
A massive overdose of drugs.
DA Paul Howard
00:02:48
An overdose of drugs.
Jacque Hollander
00:02:50
And narcotics.
Thomas Lake
00:02:52
Jacque's thoughts are often scattered, and sometimes she goes on long tangents. But today, she's focused and concise.
DA Paul Howard
00:02:59
Do you believe, from what you've put together, that it was a voluntary or involuntary intaking of those drugs?
Jacque Hollander
00:03:09
I do not believe he took the drugs voluntarily.
DA Paul Howard
00:03:13
And you believe then how did the drugs get in his body?
Thomas Lake
00:03:16
As I watch Jacque and the DA go back and forth, I can't tell what the prosecutors in the room make of her story. They seem to listen to Jacque intently, but they say very little in response.
Jacque Hollander
00:03:27
And please excuse my French when I say this. This is the most crazy batshit story anybody ever hear. And I know it sounds insane, but it is 100% the truth.
DA Paul Howard
00:03:44
Okay.
Thomas Lake
00:03:46
Jacque lays it all out. She tells the prosecutor about her meeting with Candice Hurst at the Mexican restaurant. She also explains what she's pieced together from people like Dr. Marvin Crawford, who suspected there was more to Brown's death than met the eye, and Andre White, who said he had a vial of Brown's blood that would prove the Godfather of Soul was murdered.
DA Paul Howard
00:04:06
So you would think that we certainly need to talk with Mr. White?
Jacque Hollander
00:04:09
Yes.
DA Paul Howard
00:04:10
And we need to talk to Dr. Crawford.
Jacque Hollander
00:04:12
Yes. Yes, sir.
Thomas Lake
00:04:14
These questions may sound procedural, but I'm hearing something important. Between Howard's words is an unspoken message. The D.A. is formulating a plan to look into Jacque's story. Howard sees the green plastic bin of evidence that Jacque has brought in. It's resting on a cart near the conference table. Howard tells another prosecutor to examine it.
DA Paul Howard
00:04:35
If you will go with Mrs. Hollander and you can cover inventory to see what's in it.
ADA Michael Sprinkel
00:04:41
Yes, sir.
DA Paul Howard
00:04:42
Based upon what she has told us today, we'll meet afterwards. And let's see if we can talk to some of the people that she's identified.
ADA Michael Sprinkel
00:04:49
Yes, sir.
DA Paul Howard
00:04:50
I've got a list of six people that we will try to talk to.
Thomas Lake
00:04:55
May I ask a question, Mr. Howard?
DA Paul Howard
00:04:57
Yes.
Thomas Lake
00:04:58
Would it be accurate to say that you are opening an investigation into the death of James Brown? What's the proper characterization of what you're doing?
DA Paul Howard
00:05:06
Well, I don't know if I could say it was an investigation.
Thomas Lake
00:05:08
Okay.
DA Paul Howard
00:05:08
But what I would say is we are going to see if we can verify some of the things that she said and then make a decision about whether or not to investigate.
Thomas Lake
00:05:17
Howard is a politician and he's being careful here. But to me, this is a big deal. 13 years after James Brown died, a law enforcement official is finally looking into it. Before the meeting is over, the prosecutor asks Jacque about Andre White and the vial of blood. And this opens up an even bigger topic of discussion. Something we're going to explore in this episode. Who, if anyone, was behind James Brown's death?
DA Paul Howard
00:05:45
Do you know whether or not Mr. White had his blood analyzed? The blood in the tube?
Jacque Hollander
00:05:53
It has not. He told me that if he did, they were going to kill him. That if he brought that blood in, he signed his death certificate.
DA Paul Howard
00:06:01
Do you know who he was referring to would kill him?
Jacque Hollander
00:06:06
This is really strange. It always seems to come to the word "they." Everybody that has been affiliated with James Brown ends up using the word "they."
Thomas Lake
00:06:20
There it is. This notion of an unseen, unnamed force, always watching and always dangerous. As you know by now, several other people in the world of James Brown have told me similar things. Brown's longtime assistant, Roosevelt Johnson, said James Brown himself talked about it frequently.
Roosevelt Johnson
00:06:38
He would always use the word "they." They are watching. They this, they that. That's just the way he felt up until the day he died.
Thomas Lake
00:06:47
So who were they? And did they have anything to do with James Brown's death? From CNN, this is The James Brown Mystery. I'm your host, Thomas Lake. This is episode Seven: They Got Me.
Thomas Lake
00:07:12
James Brown lived in fear for a long, long time. And if these forces he called, "they" and "them" could be hard to define, there's no doubt he had good reasons to be afraid. Brown was terrorized by one man in particular, a man he believed to be affiliated with the U.S. government. Not long before he died, Brown made a plan to leave his tormentor behind. And he was talking about this plan on November 14th, 2006. This was the night Brown was inducted into the U.K. Music Hall of Fame. At the awards ceremony in London, James Brown wore dark sunglasses and a shiny jacket that changed from blue to purple in the flash of the stage lights. He was 73 years old. Performing "I Got You," he showed he could still glide across the stage. Brown did not look like a man who had only six weeks to live.
00:08:08
He looked the best I've ever seen him in the entire time I knew him, which made his death doubly surprising.
Thomas Lake
00:08:15
Nick Ashton-Hart worked with Brown from the early to mid 2000s, managing his international tours and other business affairs. At the awards show that night in London, he was sitting on a couch backstage with the Godfather of Soul. Nick remembers Brown saying hello to Patti LaBelle and Jon Bon Jovi, who were also performing that night. Then he got back to catching up with Nick. They hadn't seen each other in quite a while, and James Brown had some big news to share.
00:08:42
You know, he was talking about how he and Mrs. Brown were going to move out of the South and move up to New York because Mrs. Brown, for good reason, was urging him to move out of the South and away from some of the people who worked for him that she thought were not working towards his best interests.
Thomas Lake
00:09:02
Nick Ashton-Hart says Brown used a striking phrase to describe the situation he wanted to leave.
00:09:08
He would every now and again, you would hear about Southern servitude. Only Mr. Brown would come up with something like that with all the terrible connotations that has to it when it's being said by somebody as a person of color. And he used that--he would be looking forward to leaving the southern servitude behind.
Thomas Lake
00:09:28
Brown's fourth wife, Tomi Rae, told me the same thing. I should note that her legal status as his wife was later called into question during the battle over Brown's estate, and eventually a court ruled their marriage wasn't valid. Anyway, Tomi Rae told me that in the last years of his life, James Brown said he was living in servitude, which literally means bondage or slavery. It's a horrifying claim for anyone to make, and even more shocking from one of the most prominent black American entertainers of the 20th century. What did Brown mean by that? Tomi Rae said Brown was talking about living under the control of David Cannon, his accountant, and Buddy Dallas, his lawyer. Nick Ashton-Hart believe this, too: that Cannon and Dallas had too much power over Brown's affairs.
Thomas Lake
00:10:15
You think Brown was trying to escape from David Cannon?
00:10:18
And Dallas. It would have to be one or both of them because they were the people most intimately connected to his business affairs, of very long standing. And they were Southerners. They were in the South.
Thomas Lake
00:10:32
Buddy Dallas was James Brown's lawyer for more than two decades. He's the one who helped arrange Jacque's recording session with Brown in the eighties. And 30 years later, long after Brown's death, it was Buddy Dallas who told Jacque to throw the James Brown duffle bag into a lake. Buddy has always said he served Brown honorably and selflessly. But here's something else about Buddy that seems relevant to James Brown's claim that he lived in southern servitude. Jacque says Brown's third wife, Adrienne, was convinced that buddy Dallas was in the Ku Klux Klan. And Brown's fourth wife, Tomi Rae, told me she also believed Buddy was in the Klan. When I asked Buddy about this, he laughed and said, I never knew any Ku Klux Klan. Anyway, Tomi Rae Brown told me Buddy Dallas and David Cannon treated Brown as if he were less than a man, the same degrading way white men often treated black men in the Jim Crow South. According to Tomi Rae, David Cannon used threats and extortion in his dealings with James Brown. She told me the Godfather of Soul once got so angry with his accountant that he slapped him. And after that, whenever Cannon wanted more leverage over Brown, he reminded Brown that he could still have him sent to jail for the assault. Jeff Allen was Brown's booking agent for 25 years. He often crossed paths with Cannon.
Jeff Allen
00:11:59
I never trusted him, I never liked them. I never believed a word that came out of his mouth. He was just an evil, evil, evil human being.
Jeff Allen
00:12:08
Several people close to James Brown questioned the ways Buddy Dallas and David Cannon treated Brown and handled his business affairs. Buddy Dallas declined to answer my questions for this podcast, but he did write this: "Mr. Brown never expressed any discontent with Mr. Cannon to me. To suggest that anyone controlled Mr. Brown is not a legitimate inquiry by anyone knowing him." Anyway, brown's manager, Frank Copsidas, had a chilling story to share about David Cannon.
Frank Copsidas
00:12:38
David Cannon took James Brown out for a ride around Barnwell, South Carolina. As they were riding around, Mr. Cannon stopped at the side of the road, pointed out a noose in a tree, and said to Mr. Brown, this what we do to people down here who don't kind of follow what we're saying.
Thomas Lake
00:12:58
Like he was referring to the Southern history of lynchings of black men.
Frank Copsidas
00:13:02
Absolutely. And Mr. Brown got shaken up. He told Mr. Bobbit about it, who then told me. I asked Mr. Brown, and he said, sometimes Mr. Cannon does things he shouldn't do. But he was shaken when he said that. I said, But did he show you a noose and a tree and point at it? And Mr. Brown just wouldn't answer. But you could tell that's what happened.
Thomas Lake
00:13:32
Looking deeper into Cannon's background, I found evidence that he misappropriated James Brown's money. In 1999, Brown made a deal that was supposed to bring him $26 million for future song royalties, but much of that 26 million went straight to David Cannon. After James Brown died and criminal investigators got involved, Cannon would enter a plea in court for the breach of trust and be sentenced to home confinement. So why did James Brown keep Buddy Dallas and David Cannon around? Dallas was his lawyer for 22 years. Cannon was his accountant for 15. Maybe Brown truly valued their help. Dallas worked hard to keep him out of prison. Cannon had proved to be skillful in fixing Brown's tax problems. Or maybe David Cannon kept Brown in check with threats about the U.S. government. Here's Brown's agent, Jeff Allen, again. When he found out Cannon was draining Brown's accounts. Allen recommended letting Cannon go, but James Brown resisted.
Jeff Allen
00:14:34
Here's what he said. Again, do my James Brown impersonation, because these are lines that he would say to me: "Mr. Allen. Stay out of my business. Mr. Cannon's with the government. You don't know what you're talking about. You're better off not knowing."
Thomas Lake
00:14:49
Cannon claimed to have ties to the US Department of Homeland Security and he said he knew President George W Bush. Was it true? I wasn't sure. Cannon declined my interview requests in 2018, and he died later that year. But whether or not Cannon's government connections were real, James Brown clearly thought they were. And according to Frank Copsidas, that helped Cannon keep Brown under control.
Frank Copsidas
00:15:16
David Cannon used this to tell James Brown he better stay in line or he'll have government agents on his doorstep, including the IRS, in a matter of moments. And there was one instance where Mr. Brown kind of defied what David Cannon said. And literally the next day, two gentlemen were at his doorstep saying they were from the IRS.
Thomas Lake
00:15:40
Who were they? Do you think?
Frank Copsidas
00:15:42
No idea. But I doubt they were IRS.
Thomas Lake
00:15:46
In my reporting, I learned that in 2006, James Brown finally decided to leave what he called his Southern servitude. He and his wife, Tomi Rae, and their son made plans to get out of South Carolina and start a new life in New York. When I asked Buddy Dallas about this, he told me, that is so much bullshit. But Frank Copsias says the move was real, and imminent.
Frank Copsidas
00:16:11
In New York, he could be himself. He could live in a place where there were other artists. He could perform regularly. He loved to go to certain restaurants in New York, and he'd meet people there and hold court. And he was excited about it. He was excited about starting a new chapter in his life.
Thomas Lake
00:16:32
Frank Copsidas says when David Cannon got wind of the move, he was not pleased. Was Cannon concerned about losing control of Brown's estate?
Frank Copsidas
00:16:41
He did want to keep it away from David Cannon and Buddy Dallas that he wanted to move to New York. But Mr. Brown could not keep a secret. So at some point, I'm sure he said to David Cannon, "I am planning to move to New York with my wife and my son." And David Cannon, I remember receiving a call from him saying, "This nonsense has to stop. He's staying here." I said, "But Mr. Brown wants to move up there." He said, "I don't care what Mr. Brown wants to do, he's staying here."
Thomas Lake
00:17:15
And so even in late 2006, the Brown family hadn't yet moved to New York. They still lived in South Carolina, and the Godfather of Soul had work to do. His tour schedule called for four shows after Christmas, including a New Year's Eve performance at B.B. King's Blues Club in New York. But as we know, Brown never made it to Manhattan. In late December, he was admitted to a hospital in Atlanta with congestive heart failure. Brown responded well to treatment, and his doctor said he was on the verge of being released. Then he took a sudden and unexpected turn for the worse. It had been only 41 days since he told Nick Ashton-Hart he was leaving Southern servitude. James Brown died on Christmas morning.
Frank Copsidas, at press conference
00:18:11
Thank you and thank you for coming on Christmas Day.
Thomas Lake
00:18:14
A few hours after James Brown died, Frank Copsidas spoke at a press conference in Atlanta. He had to tell the world the Godfather of Soul was dead.
Frank Copsidas, at press conference
00:18:24
This morning at 1:45 a.m., Mr. James Brown passed away. He was 73 years young.
Thomas Lake
00:18:33
Brown's personal manager, Charles Bobbit, spoke at the press conference, too. By all accounts, he was the last man to see James Brown alive.
Charles Bobbitt, at press conference
00:18:41
Before he died. He and I were alone. And excuse me, it's very hard for me to do this. And he told me, "I'm going away tonight." He sat down on the bed and he laid back on the foot of the bed, and he sighed very, very quietly and very gently, three times. Then he closed his eyes and he was dead. I checked.
Thomas Lake
00:19:15
Bobbit stood at the microphone for 7 minutes.
Charles Bobbitt, at press conference
00:19:17
And I called the nurse station, and they tried very diligently to revive him, but...
Thomas Lake
00:19:21
Here's what he said at the end:
Charles Bobbitt, at press conference
00:19:23
I want to thank you so much for sitting listening to me and for giving me a chance to stand in front of you and tell you a little bit about James Brown, because the whole thing will never be known.
Thomas Lake
00:19:34
The whole thing will never be known. What did Bobbit mean by that? Over the years, in private conversations with others, Bobbit revealed more details about James Brown's final moments. He said he'd left the hospital room shortly before Brown died, and it seemed that something bad happened while he was gone. When he came back to the hospital room Bobbit saw mysterious white powder under James Brown's nose. Later he told Frank Copsidas about it.
Frank Copsidas
00:20:04
The most detailed version I heard about James Brown's death from Charles Barber was there was white powder under his nose when he returned to the room. There really wasn't anybody around. And he thought it was strange how this all happened. But also the way he said it, it was like he might have known that somebody was up to something. Who that was is a good question. That's the million dollar question nobody can answer.
Thomas Lake
00:20:43
What was the white powder under Brown's nose and how did it get there? Who gave it to him? Did he take it voluntarily? Did it cause his death? Was James Brown murdered? As I pondered these questions, the same questions that have been haunting me all the years I've been on this story. I decided to do some research into Charles Bobbit. He died in 2017, just after I met Jacque Hollander and started on this project. So I never got a chance to ask him the many questions I have. Sure, I'd want to know everything about the night Brown died. But first I'd ask him about his relationship with Brown's accountant. Remember that disturbing story about David Cannon? The one about Cannon showing James Brown a noose hanging from a tree? Frank Copsidas has told me that story came from Charles Bobbit, who had heard it from Brown. But when the word got out that David Cannon was accused of stealing millions from Brown, guess who stood up for Cannon? Charles Bobbit. He testified in support of Cannon at his sentencing hearing in 2011. Cannon had entered an Alford plea, maintaining his innocence while admitting there was evidence of wrongdoing. He said he loved James Brown and had Brown's permission for everything he did. And Charles Bobbit agreed with this. He claimed that David Cannon was innocent. That Cannon didn't take millions of dollars from James Brown. Why would Charles Bobbit protect Cannon? More importantly, if Bobbit was that loyal to Cannon, could he really have been loyal to James Brown? Was Bobbit actually on James Brown's side? These questions sent me back to the beginning of the long, strange history in between Charles Bobbit and James Brown. To the 1960s, when Bobbit worked for the New York Transit Authority laying rail in the subway. One night, he saw James Brown play a show at the Apollo Theater in Harlem.
Charles Bobbitt, on the radio
00:22:37
As he walked out on the stage, the bells went off in my head and I told my wife, there he is. There is my future right there. I'm going to get a job with that man and I'm going to run his organization.
Thomas Lake
00:22:48
As I said, I didn't get to interview Bobbit before he died. But on the radio show Topically Yours in 2014, Bobbit told the story about seeing Brown at the Apollo. After that concert, he pursued Brown for months, hoping to get a job. And though it sounds far fetched, the plan worked. Bobbit left the Transit Authority and became Brown's personal manager.
Charles Bobbitt, on the radio
00:23:10
And I went on his payroll. I mean, you know, regular he brought me above board and introduced me to the band. 1967. Many people didn't know that, because they were wondering, Where'd this man came from? Because we never saw him around. We don't know what he's all about. No, it was because that I was being trained at his house without their knowledge.
Thomas Lake
00:23:31
The more I think about this story, the harder it is to believe. It was 1967. James Brown was rising fast, approaching the peak of his career, and he hired a man who'd been laying rail for the subway to be his new manager. Bobbit worked his way into Brown's inner circle not long before Brown first suspected the CIA was watching him. Soon, Bobbit was traveling the world with his new boss. In 1977, they went to Gabon, a small, mineral-rich country in Africa. James Brown was in big trouble with the IRS then. He owed millions in unpaid taxes. His powerful accountant, David Cannon, hadn't yet joined Brown's entourage to help. Brown was so desperate to solve his tax problems, he'd even written a letter to President Gerald Ford asking for help. When that didn't work, Brown asked the president of Gabon for money. President Omar Bongo was a huge fan of James Brown, but he wouldn't hand over the cash. But Bobbit says at the palace, President Bongo offered him a job, out of nowhere. Bobbit would work as Bongo's personal adviser, and Bobbit accepted this offer. He didn't say why. Was it because Brown's career had hit the skids and President Bongo could pay Bobbit more than Brown could? Or was there more to the story? Did Bobbit have ties to the U.S. government? I put in a request to the CIA for any documents they had on Charles Bobbit. The CIA would neither confirm nor deny having any. So I called my retired CIA source, Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, and asked about Charles Bobbit's time in Gabon.
Bobby Ray Inman
00:25:16
If he's there very clearly established as a senior adviser to Bongo, it would not be surprising to me if CIA made a run to um uh recruit him.
Thomas Lake
00:25:30
As assistant to President Bongo, bobbit traveled frequently between Gabon and the U.S. Eventually, Bobbit left President Bongo and went to work for Michael Jackson. And a few years before James Brown died, Bobbit returned to Brown as his personal manager, working alongside David Cannon. According to Brown's former agent, it was Cannon who kept the upper hand on Brown by convincing him that he, David Cannon, worked for the U.S. government.
Thomas Lake
00:26:01
Look, I'm just going to lay my cards on the table here and admit I don't know the whole story. When he broke the news about Brown's death at the press conference in 2006, Bobbit said the whole thing will never be known. And he may be right. I may never know whether or not Charles Bobbit or David Cannon ever worked for the U.S. government. The CIA declined to answer a list of questions I sent for this podcast. But given the many accounts of Cannon mistreating Brown and given Babbitt's testimony in favor of Cannon, does that mean Bobbit and Cannon were working together and working against James Brown? Back to the question I posed at the beginning of this episode. Who were "they," and did "they" have anything to do with James Brown's death? When Brown spoke fearfully about "they" and "them," was he talking about David Cannon and Charles Bobbit, men who appeared loyal to Brown but may have had other motives? What's clear to me now is that when Charles Bobbit was talking about James Brown at the Christmas Day 2006 press conference, he withheld at least part of the truth. Later, he told Frank Copsidas about the white powder under Brown's nose. And not long before Bobbit died, he gave an even more detailed account of James Brown's final moments. It was a story tinged with regret and in this story, told in private to someone he trusted, it sounded as if Bobbit himself believed that James Brown had been murdered.
Thomas Lake
00:27:49
After my series on James Brown was published on CNN's website in 2019, I got an email from a woman named Shana Quinones in Los Angeles. She used to be president of a company called James Brown West, which handled some of Brown's entertainment deals on the West Coast. And she seemed to know a lot of Brown's secrets. So I flew to L.A. and spent a couple of days riding around with Shana and listening to her stories. It became clear that Shana knew Charles Bobbit even better than she knew Brown. When Bobbit got old and sick and needed someone at his bedside, he called Shana and offered to pay her to take care of him.
Shana Quinones
00:28:28
He was paralyzed on his left-hand side, and bed-bound. I had to cook for him. I had to clean him.
Thomas Lake
00:28:37
As Shana cared for Bobbit, he reminisced about his life, and once in a while he talked about the death of James Brown.
Shana Quinones
00:28:45
So I'd ask him, well what happened? I got a couple of different stories.
Thomas Lake
00:28:50
One part of the story was pretty consistent. Late on Christmas Eve, Bobbit left Brown's hospital room.
Shana Quinones
00:28:57
He said he wanted to get out of the room. He needed to make phone calls.
Thomas Lake
00:29:01
When Bobbit returned to the hospital room, it was clear that something had changed.
Shana Quinones
00:29:05
He wasn't feeling good. His chest started feeling like he was burning. And then he said, Mr. Bobbit, Mr. Bobbit, I can't breathe. It's burning, Mr. Bobbit. I'm, I'm gone. They got me.
Thomas Lake
00:29:16
They got me?
Shana Quinones
00:29:18
Mhmm.
Thomas Lake
00:29:18
Just to make sure I got this right. So Mr. Bobbit's story to you, was Brown saying, "They got me."
Shana Quinones
00:29:25
"They got me." Bobbit was telling me how he kept saying "I can't breathe."
Thomas Lake
00:29:29
With the implication that someone had done something to him?
Shana Quinones
00:29:33
Uh-huh, yeah. Bobbit knew something suspicious had happened. He knew it.
Thomas Lake
00:29:38
They got me. But who were they this time? What was Charles Babbitt trying to tell Shawna Quinonez about the night Brown died? As I thought this through, I was reminded of the story Jacque told me, the one that made her believe Candice Hearst was involved in James Brown's death. Candice, you'll recall, was Brown's former backup singer and lover. Candice and her daughter told me she wasn't at the hospital the night Brown died. She was 150 miles away in Augusta, Georgia. But Shana Quinones told me Bobbit said Candice was at the hospital with Brown before he died.
Shana Quinones
00:30:15
Candice was there. She showed up. She was talking with somebody else and I think had a tit for tat with somebody about going into the room. Not like a major argument where it was embarrassing or anything like that, but a little tit for tat conversation.
Thomas Lake
00:30:30
So now I was hearing a second-hand story from Sharna that Candice was at the hospital that night and that Candice had a dustup with someone else who was there. Who was that Someone else in the room? Where Charles Bobbit and Candice Hirst in James Brown's hospital room together that night? Remember, Candice says she wasn't there that night and had nothing to do with Brown's death.
Candice Hurst
00:30:55
I did not kill James Brown. I wanted the best for him. I loved him. I wouldn't hurt a hair on his head.
Thomas Lake
00:31:01
Once again, here's the story Jacque Hollander says Candice told her. Candice later said it was just a vision. But Jacque is convinced it really happened this way.
Jacque Hollander
00:31:10
She was in the hospital room with him, with Charles Bobbit, and that the drugs were on a tray and the tray something, Brown freaked or something, and the the tray dropped and it hit her shoes and it went all over her clothes and that he wouldn't die fast enough. And Bobbit came in, there was a glass of water, and he put these herbs in the water and they gave it to Brown to help him pass over because he wouldn't die quick enough.
Thomas Lake
00:31:42
Were the drugs on the tray, the same drugs that ended up on the bottom of Candice's shoe? And if Jacque is right about what happened that night, what herbs did Bobbit put into James Brown's water? Shana Quinones told me she doubted Bobbit would have done anything to hurt Brown. And there's a chance Brown took drugs voluntarily in the hospital. But could a combination of drugs and herbs have killed James Brown? If so, who provided them? A few years ago, Brown's son, Darryl, told me he wanted his father's body exhumed for an autopsy that might finally reveal Brown's cause of death. But this would be even more complicated than it sounds. For one thing, it's not exactly clear where the body is. At one point, it was said to be in a crypt in Brown's daughter Deanna's yard in South Carolina. Another daughter, LaRhonda Pettit, was quoted as saying James Brown's body had disappeared. LaRhonda died in 2013. But I caught up with Deanna at an outdoor music festival in Augusta and asked her about this.
Thomas Lake
00:32:46
There's been a suggestion that the crypt is empty.
Deanna Brown Thomas
00:32:49
Oh. God bless whoever said that too.
Thomas Lake
00:32:53
Any chance that's true?
Deanna Brown Thomas
00:32:54
God bless whoever said that, too.
Thomas Lake
00:32:58
I'll take that as a no.
Deanna Brown Thomas
00:33:00
It's amazing the things that people will come up with.
Thomas Lake
00:33:02
So his body is in the crypt, in your yard.
Deanna Brown Thomas
00:33:05
I said I wasn't gonna answer questions I don't wanna answer. I'm sticking to my guns.
Thomas Lake
00:33:14
When I talked to Brown's manager, Frank Copsidas, earlier this year, he still wanted answers.
Frank Copsidas
00:33:19
Well, my question was, if indeed somebody went into his room and did something wouldn't it be on those surveillance cameras? Even if the camera on the floor was out, how about the entryway? How about the elevators? There are too many cameras to capture footage. Where are those cameras? Where's the footage?
Thomas Lake
00:33:40
It was a good question. What did hospital security cameras show from that night?
Frank Copsidas
00:33:45
We did ask the hospital administration and they came back with, well, we're looking into it. But at some point, somewhere along the line, we were told the system went down that night and there was no footage.
Thomas Lake
00:34:01
A decade after Brown died, I asked a hospital spokesperson if I could see the surveillance footage from Christmas 2006, but I was told the hospital had no such surveillance video to share. Frank Copsidas still finds Brown's death suspicious.
Frank Copsidas
00:34:16
I do believe James Brown was murdered. There are too many things pointing to it. It just, there was something in my gut that I picked up. Something is wrong here. That's my interpretation, plain and simple. Somebody wanted him dead.
Thomas Lake
00:34:46
On the next episode of The James Brown Mystery:.
Thomas Lake
00:34:49
This is the biggest news I've heard in.
Jacque Hollander
00:34:53
I know, Thomas.
Thomas Lake
00:34:54
Three and a half years, right?
Jacque Hollander
00:34:55
I know, Thomas. I've been crying.
Ghost
00:34:58
You, Thomas Lake, are a crook, a fraud, a liar, a deceiver, a harasser.
Jacque Hollander
00:35:05
Totally empty bag. Nothing in it. It's all empty. They kept everything.
Jacque Hollander
00:35:13
The James Brown mystery is hosted and reported by me and Thomas Lake. Our executive producer's Abbie Fentress Swanson. Our senior producer is Felicia Patinkin and our producers are Rachel Cohn, Ann Lagamayo, Lori Galarreta and Jennifer Lai. Our associate producers are Emmanuel Johnson, Nathan Miller and Sonia Htoon, and our production assistant is Eden Getachew. Our story editor is David Weinberg and our production manager is Tameeka Ballance-Kolasny. Liz Roberts and Kyra Posey lead audience strategy for our show ,and James Andress and Nichole Pesaru designed our artwork. Erica Huang is our mix engineer and sound designer. Celena Urabe is our assistant sound engineer. And Dan Dzula is CNN Audio's senior manager of production operations. Theme and original music composed by David Steinberg and Nathan Miller. Special thanks to Mia Taylor, Courtney Coupe, Katie Hinman, Lindsay Abrams, Robert Mathers, Dalila Paul, Andrea White, Anissa Gray, Juhita Due, Ram Ramgopal, Lisa Namerow and Jon Dianora.
