podcast
The Axe Files with David Axelrod
David Axelrod, the founder and director of the University of Chicago Institute of Politics, and CNN bring you The Axe Files, a series of revealing interviews with key figures in the political world. Go beyond the soundbites and get to know some of the most interesting players in politics.
Ep. 575 — Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
The Axe Files with David Axelrod
Apr 11, 2024
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi may have made history as the first woman elected Speaker of the US House of Representatives, but she made her reputation as an effective leader with a knack for building consensus and pushing landmark legislation across the finish line. She joined David live at Arizona State University to talk about the political skills she learned from her father, her work to pass the Affordable Care Act, her unfavorable opinion of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, why she wishes the Department of Justice would have moved faster on investigating January 6, 2021, and much more.
Episode Transcript
Intro
00:00:05
And now from the Institute of Politics at the University of Chicago and CNN Audio, The Axe Files, with your host, David Axelrod.
David Axelrod
00:00:16
'While much of the rest of the nation was watching the eclipse, I was sitting down with former Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi for a rollicking chat for a democracy series I'm hosting this spring at Arizona State University. We touched on the election and some of the key issues churning our politics in the world today. One of those, of course, is Gaza. And our conversation was punctuated at times by pro-Palestinian protesters. But I must confess, it was not your typical Axe Files. I wanted to focus on leadership, power and the lessons she's learned about their use during her long historic career. But you put Pelosi in a room full of young people, and, well, at times I just had to sit back and listen to her share her rich and colorful stories. I hope you will, too. Here's that conversation. Thank you. Thank you. Dean. Speaker Emerita. That's a mouthful. Speaker Pelosi welcome. Emerita. What is that? It has meaning, right?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:01:13
It means happiness. Yeah.
David Axelrod
00:01:16
I raise that. I raise that because you look, every time I see you on TV, I say, boy, she looks a lot more relaxed than she did when she was running the joint. Is that true?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:01:26
Well, you be the judge. And I say this to Hakeem Jeffries, who's going to be speaker before you know it, that, for 20 years, I was leader or speaker. That meant every day I was responsible for every word that was said on the floor of the House from the Democratic side and as speaker across the board. So you never slept. I mean, you're up until all hours, especially if you represent California or Arizona. You're. There's more time to work. And then that, and then on top of that. So that's your policy work, your official work. And then on top of that to make sure that you win the elections. So you don't even have a moment. It's a beautiful privilege. It was really lovely. And I'm so thrilled that we are in such good hands now. And and I don't know how political we can be here, but just just civics, just civics. Just civics. In November, Hakeem Jeffries will become the speaker of the House. Yeah.
David Axelrod
00:02:35
So. I was driving, I was driving down here, listening to the eclipse on the radio and lamenting the fact that we in Arizona, sitting in Arizona, were sort of bypassed by the bulk of it, because it's a rare and historic event, but.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:02:55
Yeah.
David Axelrod
00:02:56
But we, we have the privilege of having you, and you're sort of a rare and historic person, as well. So. And it was when you when you became speaker in 2007, you became a historic figure immediately because you were the first woman and thus far the only woman to be Speaker of the House. Now when people talk about you, they say she was a historic figure, because she may have been the most effective speaker in the history of the country. And so I want to spend a little time on leadership and some lessons you learned about leadership and power. And we had this discussion once on this podcast way back when.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:03:37
Yes.
David Axelrod
00:03:37
And I asked you about growing up in your household in Baltimore, because people associate you with the city of San Francisco. But you're the daughter of a former mayor of Baltimore, former congressman. Your brother was the mayor of Baltimore. What was it like growing up in that house, and what lessons did you learn that you carried with you when you became speaker of the House?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:03:59
'Well, thank you, David, for the invitation to be here. May I first say how honored I am to be at ASU, what a fabulous institution. Dean, thank you for your lovely welcome to all of us. I also love being in Arizona, because my daughter has lived here what, 25 years? We spend time here visiting family and and it again, it's it's a very special place. And. Now in terms of of leadership. Yeah. I. Let me just put it in a little bit of perspective. I was born and raised in Baltimore, Maryland into a very Italian Catholic family. We were devoutly Catholic, proud of our Italian-American heritage, fiercely patriotic, loving America, and in our case, staunchly Democratic. We saw our connection between our faith, the gospel of Matthew. When I was hungry, you fed me. When I was homeless, you sheltered me. You know you, I'm sure you must have some familiarity with that. As our civic mission.
Protester
00:05:15
Nancy Pelosi, you are complicit in genocide.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:05:17
Yeah, I appreciate your sentiment.
David Axelrod
00:05:19
We are gonna. We're gonna be. We are gonna be. We're gonna be. We're going to be. We're going to be talking about this.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:05:25
You can say what you will about me, but I resent your saying Genocide Joe. Joe Biden has been the most advocate, the strongest advocate for humanitarian assistance for the Palestinians. He has been advocating for the humanitarian assistance for the Palestinians for months now. That has been held up by the other side of the aisle, but they don't want to talk about that.
David Axelrod
00:05:53
Let us continue. We're going, we'll get to this issue.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:05:56
I don't mind talking over them if you don't mind listening. So anyway.
David Axelrod
00:06:01
Okay.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:06:02
So what was interesting, what I think you might find interesting is people said to me, how did your upbringing in Baltimore prepare you for being in San Francisco, which I've been there for over 50 years. My husband was born and raised there. And so, but, actually, it was just that about respect, the dignity and worth of every person. And if you want me to, I can go into the religious aspects of that.
David Axelrod
00:06:31
What I want to ask you about, honestly, because I'm just an old hack, I want to ask you about politics. Because I want to ask you you. When I asked you years ago, I said, what did you learn watching your father through elections and campaigns? You said, I learned how to count.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:06:45
Count. That's important.
David Axelrod
00:06:47
Yes, but but but tell me about that. Tell me how. Because I have a feeling that you learned some skills that ended up being very useful when you were trying to marshal your forces in the, in the Congress.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:07:02
'Well, I did know that you have to win. And in order to win, you have to have the most votes. And if you don't win, that means you didn't have the most votes. So I would watch them as a little girl when they would take out these yellow legal pads and say, in order to win citywide, we have to have X number of votes. That means in your district you have to come up with this many, that many, that many, that many, that many, that many. And so everybody had their assignment as to how many votes they would have to, to, bring out. My brother Tommy, who became mayor of Baltimore, he was my oldest. We were seven. I was raised with five boys, because one died of pneumonia, but my brother Tommy was the oldest. He became mayor, too. But when he was young, like a teenager, my father ran for mayor of Baltimore. But this was a big deal. Italian-American in Little Italy of Baltimore. Baltimore had never had a Catholic mayor. Leapfrog over the Irish. I say that with my grandsons Liam, Sean and Ryan. Leapfrog over the Irish. And when that. So then. So any event, in any event. What happened was they took my brother, he took my brother up to the roof of the house. And he said, Tommy said to my father, do you think we can win, dad? And he said, well, let's go on the roof of the house. They go to the roof of the house. They see all these cars converging on the headquarters. At like 5:00 in the morning. Bright lights converging on the, headlights, to pick up their material to get out the vote. And he said, well, I don't know if we're going to win, but we know we're going to give them a run for it, because everybody had their assignment on it. And, so it was it was nothing that you took for granted or anything that you assumed. Assume that word meant ass of you and me. You do not assume anything. You just know that you will have the vote. So watching politics and poker, you know, that's what it was in those days, I, I understood that was what you had to do. And that meant in elections as well as in.
David Axelrod
00:09:34
It also meant sort of understanding who those voters were and having relationships with those voters. I know you kept the files assiduously on all the constituents.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:09:44
Well, they say that, but the point is, is that what when when. We lived in in the neighborhood, so people would come if they needed a bed in the city hospital or a a place to stay in the projects or getting somebody out of jail or into jail or whatever it happened to be. How do you direct them? People really didn't really know how to use the the functions of government. And so I knew how to do, I could get somebody on welfare or anything else like that when I was a little girl, because I could hear what my mother said about that when people would come to the door. But, it wasn't doing them any favor, it was just giving them guidance as to this is what you have to do to do that. And when that would happen, when you say the file, it would only be, well, David got a place in the projects, or David got a job with the city, or David.
David Axelrod
00:10:50
Went to jail.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:10:51
Whatever it is. But not the jail part. And and so when somebody else needed a job or this or that, you just say, David might be able to give you some advice. So it was like a paying forward on it. It wasn't about politics. It was really about just paying forward. But anyway, that was a long time ago.
David Axelrod
00:11:14
You had your, but people had relationships with these voters. When you were speaker of the House, you were sort of famous for knowing who your members were and knowing what they needed, what motivated them, who influenced them. And we were joking before. My wife Susan, who's here today, we were in Rome and just had dinner with Joe Donnelly, who's the ambassador to the Holy See now, to the Vatican. But he was a congressman when we were working together on the Affordable Care Act. And we were 20 votes short and you were. The president said, let Nancy do her thing. And you did your thing. But Donnelly reported that one of the things that you did, that you had the legendary former, late now president of Notre Dame, father Hesburgh, call Donnelly, who was very devout and represented South Bend to lobby him on your behalf. I mean, you must have carried around a fantastic amount of information in your head about these people.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:12:22
'Well, Father Hesburgh was just a remarkable figure. And I had to fight--don't tell anybody I told you this--the bishops. Thank God I had the nuns. Thank God for the nuns, because that's how we were able to build the outside support. So with these things, whether it's an inside more a maneuvering, you're inside maneuvering to make sure you're going to have the vote. You're going to have the votes. It's just a question of when, and you don't take it up until you do. And so it was no question in my mind. We had this magnificent president who was committed to establishing affordable health care in America. And people had tried for 100 years, from Teddy Roosevelt. They've tried, tried and tried. Franklin Roosevelt, he tried. We could get Social Security, but not health care. And then LBJ and Harry Truman before him and all the rest. And now the president was committed to this, and we were not going to miss any opportunity, because we considered it a pillar: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Affordable Care Act. And we were going to make it happen. So it was going to happen. Now, when you're maneuvering internally, you get your vote. You know, you make sure everybody understands. We read the bill all together like this in the room. People could ask questions, improve this or that. But without the outside mobilization, it makes it very difficult. So you have your inside maneuvering and your outside mobilization. So we were moving. Since you're talking about affordable care, it is a story. I just wrote a book, and it's in there. But I'll give you the abbreviated version. I know it's already too late for that, but nonetheless, the abbreviated version. We had the votes in the House. We know we're going to do this just well, so well. And the press, then, Senator Kennedy, rest his soul, died. And a Republican won the seat in Massachusetts. And the press said to me, it's done, you're done. It's over.
David Axelrod
00:14:37
They were hanging crepe on the Affordable Care Act.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:14:38
Yeah, they said, you're, you're going. I said, you know what? We are not. Our House Democrats are not going to miss this generational opportunity for health care. We're just not going to do it. So they said, well, how are you going to do it? I said, well, we're not letting anything stand in our way. If there's a fence, we'll push open the gate. If that doesn't work, we'll climb the fence. If that doesn't work, we'll pole vault it. If that doesn't work, we'll parachute in. But we are not allowing anything to stand in the way for health care for American people. So, after it happened, they said, which one did you do? Actually, and that was a few months, a couple months later. We just pushed open the gate, because we had not only the number of votes to do so, we had the outside mobilization, we had the nuns, we had the little lobbyists, the children who are born with so many challenges and so, such high cost. We had people with disabilities. We had, we had everybody who cared, all those pushing open that door. So when we talk about any of these things, it's important to talk about our strength internally in the Congress, but what's really important is the outside mobilization. Abraham Lincoln said public sentiment is everything. With it, you can accomplish almost anything. Without it, practically nothing. But for public sentiment to prevail, people have to know. People have to know. When I called Father Hesburgh, I already had the votes. But I wanted more, you know, I wanted more. So I called him, I said, Father, the bishops are not all there with us, because they're not reading the bill. It does nothing to change the, what's his name.
David Axelrod
00:16:38
Hyde Amendment.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:16:38
Hyde Amendment. There's nothing to change.
David Axelrod
00:16:41
Funding for abortion.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:16:42
'It doesn't do any of that. So, in any event. So when I called him, I said the bishops, eh. But the nuns, the nuns are with us. So he calls Joe Donnelly, who's a beautiful, lovely man, pro-life. But many of the pro-life members of Congress were with us on this bill. And, and, he says, Joe, the speaker and I need your vote on the Affordable Care Act.
David Axelrod
00:17:10
Yeah, well, it was an influential.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:17:13
It was. I love the way he said it, though.
David Axelrod
00:17:14
I want to. I could talk about the Affordable Care Act forever. I mentioned to you, I, I spoke to a class the other day. I see the professor here. And one of the young people who was there told me that they, that he had three heart surgeries, that he would not have been able to have but for the Affordable Care Act. And.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:17:35
He wouldn't afford it.
David Axelrod
00:17:36
Susan knows this. We have a child with a preexisting medical condition, and it was terribly difficult, epilepsy, when she was a child, and we almost went bankrupt. I wept the night the Affordable Care Act passed, because I knew that other others wouldn't have to go through what our family did back then. So, very grateful to you. I know the role you played, that in some ways, you're you're downplaying your role. Although I did enjoy watching you parachute in that. But, you know, one thing that you did.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:18:08
Before you go there, let me just say why I came here today. I have great respect, oh, I love the institution. Any invitation I would love to have. But David's invitation very special to me, because he brought us this great president of the United States, Barack Obama, a gift to America. And he was so instrumental in that. But also because he and Susan are such magnificent parents. And it just, they just glow with their love of their children.
David Axelrod
00:18:35
Thank you.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:18:36
And that to me, for me, it's all about the children.
David Axelrod
00:18:39
Susan glows, and I bask in her glow. So she's she's.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:18:42
Okay, I'll accept that.
David Axelrod
00:18:43
'I mean, everything you said was worth hearing, but where I was going, what was even on the even on the issue of abortion, you negotiated language to make clear what should have been clear and to make it possible for pro-life Democrats who wanted to come on board to come on board. And that word compromise is an important word, and it's become tarnished in our contemporary politics. And when you forge legislation, what is your expectation about having to change, to adapt to, when you talk to a member on either side to get their vote. Do you always get what you want?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:19:27
'The, let me just say on that score, though, that, on the Affordable Care Act, we we had some the person who wrote the Hyde Amendment, not Hyde, he is no longer with us, but Jim Oberstar wrote the Hyde Amendment. Very pro-life members were supporting the bill, because they knew that the bill did not violate the Hyde Amendment. So it was kind of an angle, but it wasn't really a fact as to what it did, but to give more clarity to it. We want to remove all doubt that anybody might have. And the president.
David Axelrod
00:20:06
But that's part of.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:20:06
The president was very instrumental in that bill.
David Axelrod
00:20:09
I will say.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:20:10
One more thing. One more thing. That night the president called. You will like to hear this. You tell me. That night the president called, and he said tonight, because you passed the Affordable Care Act, I'm happier than I was the night I was elected president of the United States.
David Axelrod
00:20:30
He told all of us that, by the way, what.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:20:32
But what I said was, well, I was happy tonight. Jubilant. Tearfully. But I wasn't happier than I was the night you were elected president. Because if you were not elected president of the United States, we would not have this victory tonight.
David Axelrod
00:20:46
Well, I don't want to. I don't want to get between the two of you. So. But I will say, Steve Israel, one of your great former colleagues, said about you, when you walk into Nancy's office, two things catch your eye. There are chocolates on the table and a baseball bat in the corner. And she's. He said, she's perfectly comfortable using either to persuade you. On this issue of abortion, I know you don't like to mention of Donald Trump, but he is the Republican, putative Republican or de facto Republican nominee. And he released a video today on this issue of abortion. You probably saw that. He said that.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:21:28
He's leaving it up to the states.
David Axelrod
00:21:28
The states. That's what that's what he said. What what was your reaction to that? He did take credit for scuttling Roe versus Wade.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:21:37
'Yeah. Well, he he takes great pride in the fact that this Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade. Now, as I say, I come from a very, as my daughter Nancy can tell you, a very pro-life, Italian-American, Catholic family in Baltimore, Maryland. They don't, they don't support or oppose anybody because of a woman's right to choose. But that's what they are. They think I'm a little exuberant about the subject, but that's their problem, not mine. So here's the thing. In the history of our country, from the very beginning, these beautiful visionaries put together a country founded on the principles of equality and the rest, unlike anything that's ever happened in the history of the world. They wrote a Constitution, they wrote a Declaration of Cndependence. They wrote a Constitution. Thank God they made it amendable. Because for their compromises, they had slavery, they had other things in the Constitution, woman, uh. And so, so they made it amendable. And from that time on, when they, when they ratified the Constitution, freedom has always expanded. Abolish slavery, Black men have the right to vote, eventually women have the right to vote. All these things, women having the right to choose her reproductive health. Then marriage equality passed by the Supreme Court. Until these guys came along and others came along and reversed the expansion of freedom that was central to America by saying that women would not have the right to choose. That was a reversal, and he takes great pride in that. What's his name does. And now he's afraid of the politics of it. So while he brags about reversing Roe v Wade, he is now saying it's up to the states. So it's getting mixed reviews on his side of the world in terms of, well, no, that is supposed to be gone. You know, no abortion. I don't even like to use the word, but. And so it'll be interesting to see how he he deals with it. From our standpoint, he's talking about banning a woman's right to choose.
David Axelrod
00:24:06
What would the effect be if you can't pass a national law encoding protections for women?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:24:14
It will be. Well, we're seeing some of it now. We're seeing people coming close to death. You can't you can't say that. Well, you know what I always say to that, Republicans, why don't you get a, like, a lesson in the birds and the bees? Do you know how all this stuff works? Do you know how this happens? This is this is not a subject of conversation only. It's a reality of life about how you have a baby, how you might miscarry. And if you do, you need to have treatment for that. But they don't allow that. I mean, this is very, very, very dangerous. It's very dangerous. It's cruel. And it just cannot stand. And I don't.
David Axelrod
00:25:05
How big an issue you think this would be in this campaign? It was in 2022.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:25:09
Yeah. It'll be it'll be an issue. But it is not just about this issue. I mean, in other words, you have to enlarge the whole thing. It's about respecting people and their opinions and their freedom. The issue of a woman's right to choose is a freedom issue. It's a democracy issue. It's a democracy. So you have to take it to that place. You have to take it to that place. It's about freedom of choice. And it's a kitchen table issue. I always talk about, you know, if I got the big room with a big table, the boardroom, the corporate room, the room in the speaker's office, the room in the cabinet office. The room, kitchen table. That's the powerful room in our country where people make decisions about their lives, about their budgets and what's going to be important to them, how they save or not for their children's education, how they size and timing if they, if you have a family. All of that, their health care costs enter into that. Many public policy issues are affected by their decisions and our decisions at that kitchen table.
David Axelrod
00:26:20
Yeah. Can I ask.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:26:20
And a woman's right to choose is a kitchen table issue. So it's an economic issue. It's a freedom issue. It's a respect for women issue.
David Axelrod
00:26:32
We're going to take a short break and we'll be right back with more of The Axe Files. And now back to the show. Can I talk to you about the kitchen table? Because I quite agree with you. That's, the discussion around the kitchen table is so important in campaigns and elections, and there's no doubt that we have made significant progress. During the horrible days of 2021, at the height of the pandemic, the economy was on its back, higher, high unemployment and so on. And the president talks a lot about the progress that we've made. But people around their kitchen tables say, things are more expensive. Because they are all over the world. Inflation has raised prices. They're paying 20% more for groceries, for gas, for, rent and and. Isn't, wouldn't it make more sense to say we are fighting for lower prices? That this is the this is the economic issue of this moment, and this is, rather than extolling how good the economy is?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:27:48
Well, I agree with that. I mean, in other words, people, I say this all the time to our candidates. People don't want to hear you tell them that you deserve to be reelected because you did this, this, this, and this. Nobody deserves anything. But it does qualify you when you say I am going to get the job done. So I think it's not a. The elections are always about the future. Not about what you did, although that's a good calling card. But it's not about. It's about the future. So what. I think, frankly, in the Obama years, too, there was a tendency to say, we've gotten this done.
David Axelrod
00:28:29
And we learned our lesson.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:28:31
Yeah, but so, so but you have to be talking about the future. Now, there are lots of reasons why there's a, the the cost of living goes up. One of them is, of course, what happened with Covid and the supply chain and all the rest of that contributes to that. You know what else contributes to it? War. War is something what's happening in Ukraine, whether it's energy from Russia, fertilizer from Russia, grain from Ukraine, and the rest has contributed to the cost of living. And somehow people got the idea that inflation and cost of were interchangeable, our inflation is lower than any of the developed countries.
David Axelrod
00:29:14
But it's cumulative. Right. So they're feeling the cumulative effect. People are feeling the cumulative effect of years of inflation. That's why prices are 20% higher. But I take your point about the war. We should talk about that. And you know, I was sort of meandering to a question about Ukraine. And, because this seems like we're in an eventful week here. You know, you had a three vote majority when you were. Two votes. All right, who's counting? You count. That's, you had a two vote majority, and yet you were able to pass a lot of the legislation of of the president's legislation, the infrastructure bill, the advanced manufacturing bill.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:29:57
The rescue package. Yeah.
David Axelrod
00:30:00
Climate bill, climate health care.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:30:04
Chips.
David Axelrod
00:30:04
Yes. No, no.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:30:05
Welcome to Arizona.
David Axelrod
00:30:06
'With a two-vote majority, you did it with a two vote majority. First of all, does Speaker Johnson ever sidle up the aisle and whisper to you, what's your secret? But what what? Why are they what what was the difference between your two-vote majority and his now one-vote majority that makes it so hard to get anything done?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:30:28
We're hopeful that we will get something done this week, he said he's going.
David Axelrod
00:30:32
On Ukraine. Do you feel that.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:30:34
Well, we have to. I mean, we cannot allow Ukraine. We must win in Ukraine. Democracy is on the line in Ukraine. He knows that. Now, of course, there was a Putin caucus on the Republican side of the aisle. History not politics. There's a Putin caucus. They like they they like Putin. That's good actually. And and it's it's scary. In fact, the chairman, a Republican chairman of the in, in the of the Intelligence Committee in the House said yesterday, it was in the news yesterday, that the Russian propaganda has taken over.
David Axelrod
00:31:17
Yes.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:31:18
The Republican side of the aisle. So, in any event, we have to win for what it means Ukraine. But what it means to the countries surrounding Ukraine, some of them NATO, some of them not. All of them targets of Putin, and they know it. And also democracy. Democracy is is on the line there. So we, the, I think the speaker appreciates that and knows that, we just have to come up with something.
David Axelrod
00:31:44
So let me ask, can I ask you a question about this, though, because he has sort of the sword hanging over his head. But one of the things that you did when you got reelected as speaker in 2019 was you changed this rule about, governing this motion to vacate the chair to make it harder to implement. When Kevin McCarthy became speaker, he gave all that back and made it possible for one person to start the process of removing the speaker of the House. And, as you know, you're.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:32:16
Well, it was the incredible shrinking speakership. You know. They've take it down to one person can can out you. But here's the thing.
David Axelrod
00:32:24
My question is, are you going to help him? Would you help the speaker if he puts this on the floor, because the threat is that that would be invoked?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:32:32
'Well, I don't. The question would be will all the Republicans stick with that? You know. But anyway, let me just say on this thing, this is about the integrity of the House of Representatives. And I told John Boehner when he was speaker, and I said to extend it to to Paul Ryan, you can't let--back to our old subject--but when when John Boehner was speaker, he lost. We beat him in a vote to save Planned Parenthood. And the Republicans were furious with him, and they said they were going to oust him. And I said, you know, we're not letting you get ousted because we won on Planned Parenthood. It has nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with the integrity of the House. But he said he said, okay, okay, okay. But then he said, they're going to do this to me every week. I'm out of here.
David Axelrod
00:33:30
Yeah, and he left.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:33:30
He walked right out the door. Yeah, he walked right out the door the day after the Pope came. He's he's stayed for that. And then he walked right out the door. I don't blame him, but, but he just left and then so.
David Axelrod
00:33:42
As did Speaker Ryan.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:33:44
Yeah. Well, it's it's.
David Axelrod
00:33:46
Who would want this job?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:33:47
It's different on their side of the aisle. I can't psychoanalyze what that is, but I will say that, and the it would be interesting to see how many Republicans really go along with that, because we have a nice rapport. But the Republicans wanted Donald Trump for speaker, and they got him.
David Axelrod
00:34:12
Because he influences enough people?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:34:15
Completely in touch. Although I think he knows. Because the defense community, everybody is saying, you've got to send this money to Ukraine. And the bill has billions, billions of dollars for humanitarian assistance for the Palestinians. The Republicans have an alternative bill that doesn't have the money for the Palestinians. So when they start talking about Genocide Joe and the rest of that, they've got another agenda. Of course, we're all concerned about what's happening to Palestinians. Many of us have been for two state solution for years, for decades, and disagree with Netanyahu. I mean, I think he's terrible. But Joe Biden has this money for the Palestinians, has always been for the two state solution to give the Palestinians the dignity of their own state, which, of course, Netanyahu opposes.
David Axelrod
00:35:08
I mean, two things can be true at once. I mean, I'm the son of a Jewish refugees, so I feel strongly about this. And October 7th was unthinkable.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:35:18
Barbaric.
David Axelrod
00:35:18
Unbearable. But you can still weep for Palestinian children who are starving. You can still weep for Palestinian families who are. And these young people who stand here and disrupt are very passionate about it. And there are a lot of people who are passionate about it. President's in a tough spot, is he not? Because you want to allow Israel to secure itself, and he's providing the weaponry. We're providing the weaponry to do that. And yet we see what some of the results, the ancillary impacts of it, and they're pretty severe. You signed a letter on Friday, and I know it was specific to the World Central kitchen Attack, to hold up a transfer of additional weapons until there was a full investigation.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:36:04
Which they did. Which they're doing the investigation.
David Axelrod
00:36:06
So, you're.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:36:07
I thought the letter was gentle. I mean, there are those who would have had a letter that said no aid to Israel because of that. No, it said, unless there is an investigation of how this happened. And Israel said right away that they would have it. And when they did, I said, okay, well, because we kind of tempered the letter.
David Axelrod
00:36:26
Well, we now have. We're coming up on another issue, which is that Netanyahu said today that they have a date chosen for the operation in Rafah, where most of the, where many Palestinians are now congregated. What. Are there, are there red lines for you?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:36:48
Well, the. Our President of the United States has been a strong supporter of Israel. Going beyond strong support, we love Israel for what it has.
David Axelrod
00:37:02
I think your father was a strong supporter even before Israel was he was a.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:37:05
'Yeah, well, my father was a member of Congress. When he was a young boy, when he was a young boy in the neighborhood. He would go back to Little Italy, but right next to, there is the Jewish community. And he was a Shabbat goy. If you know what that is. But he used to go and light the furnace or the stove or whatever it is, because Jewish people couldn't work on the Sabbath. So he was a Shabbat, Sabbath goy, non-Jewish person. And he learned Yiddish. He learned Yiddish. So when he was 21 and could vote, he ran for office for state House of delegates, then city council, and then eventually he was running for Congress. And when when he was out there on the campaign, he was a great orator. Couldn't read a speech for $1 million. But he was a great answer. And he would turn the most hostile argument, audience into the laughing and cheering. And he was just one of those kind of people. And he spoke Yiddish. So they would have him out. This group would. They had pageants and parades and rallies about two things: one, the United States has to do more to protect Jewish people in Europe, and two, establish, the White House has to be more aggressive and assertive in establishing a Jewish state in what was called Palestine at the time. He worshiped at the shrine of Franklin Roosevelt. You can just imagine coming from the neighborhood. But on those two scores, he challenged them to the point that he went to the floor of the house, stood up, and said, I'm speaking for the Hebrew Men's Army, and I want the record to show that 2 million Jewish people had been murdered in Europe for what they believe. This information is in the archives of the State Department, and is well known to the administration. That was a real, that took courage. So so I say to Netanyahu, you don't mean anything to me. My love for Israel springs, is in my DNA. So your approval of what I say or not doesn't, you know? Well, what does that mean to me? Because I love Israel.
David Axelrod
00:39:33
'Chuck Schumer, you know, said that he called for new elections. He said that Netanyahu was a barrier to ending the war and finding a solution, a two-state solution.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:39:43
Well, Chuck Schumer was very courageous in his statement, because Chuck and I even split on Iran. Iran. I mean, that was to stop the development of a nuclear weapon. But Chuck went with Israel on that. So he's been there with Israel every step of the way. He's a beautiful, devout Jewish person. He loves Israel. And for him to make that statement, I think, took great courage. I'm so proud of him.
David Axelrod
00:40:11
Can this be resolved with Netanyahu as prime minister? Are you worried about that?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:40:18
I don't think. I mean, I've said this to Netanyahu over the years. I don't know whether you don't know how to make peace, you don't want to make peace, or you're afraid of peace. But you could be doing so much more instead of just throwing red meat to the crowd, you know, which iswhat, what he did. So I don't know that he. I don't, you know, I try to, you know, looking at his family background, you know his family background. The rest. But he he. No, I think that he's interested in one thing, his own survival. And that's it. It's a tragedy.
David Axelrod
00:41:04
Yeah. He's in a bit of the situation that Trump.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:41:05
Imagined that they're doing settlements. They're doing settlements now. They're doing settlements. When I first came to Congress, I first came to Congress, I was invited to go to a Jewish group to speak, and I looked forward to it and this or that. But the main attraction that day was Jim Baker. George Herbert Walker Bush was president. George and.
Intro
00:41:34
Baker was Secretary of State.
00:41:34
Baker said in the room, the United States will not extend loan guarantees as long as you continue supporting settlements. Oh my God. They just went crazy, and the place went crazy because and now there's like almost two generation, generation and a half of young people who are raised on these settlements. Very conservative. What is the purpose of saying in the in the cabinet of Netanyahu? We're going to go into Gaza and we're going to settle it ourselves. We're going to push all these people out. That is not a two state solution. And I say to them, Israel is a Jewish democratic state. If you don't have a two state solution, you're going to have many Palestinians and Arabs living in Israel, and as a democratic state, there could be change. And you know what some of them said? We don't have to allow them to vote. Then you're not a democratic state. Then you're not a democracy. It's this a big.
David Axelrod
00:42:47
I don't want to.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:42:48
We want Israel to be able to defend itself. What happened on October 7th was barbaric. And. And you don't see any of these people. These people live outside my house in the middle of the night. Needless to say, I don't need people ringing my doorbell in the middle of the night. After what we've been through in the middle of the night in our home. But they don't say anything about the hostages. They don't say anything about Hamas, a terrorist organization. And that doesn't justify 32,000 people dying in in Gaza. So there has to be. I think that President Biden has it within him. Because of his love of Israel, his knowledge of this and the rest, and his empathy for the people of Gaza, and understanding that for Israel, the solution is a two state solution. So what, when Netanyahu would say, well, I don't like the two state solution. I said, understand the word has the word. The phrase has the word solution. If it isn't a solution, it's not a solution. We're talking about taking it to a place, as you've said, can this be worked out where there is a real solution?
David Axelrod
00:44:00
We're going to take a short break and we'll be right back with more of The Axe Files. And now, back to the show. I want to ask two things, and I am almost embarrassed to suggest this, but I need short answers on this, because because because I can.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:44:29
You don't want to hear about my father speaking Yiddush?
David Axelrod
00:44:31
Yeah, and don't give me the answer.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:44:32
But that was interesting, wasn't it?
David Axelrod
00:44:33
It was. Yes. That was a great story. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. But, we're in Arizona, it's a border state, as California is a border state. The issue of the border continues to be an extraordinary problem. And I think a political problem as well for the president. What what do you suggest? What? I mean, there was a bill that the Senate passed, and it was killed after Trump said that he would not support it. Would you have voted for that bill, by the way?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:45:04
Yeah. I didn't love it to death, but I would have voted for it.
David Axelrod
00:45:06
It was a tough. It was a tough bill.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:45:08
It was a compromise. And, that was an answer. And that's the path we should have gone down. And it's most unfortunate. But that, again, Trump even exerted his power in the Senate. Now the Senate, he's not going to like this. But I tell them, and I told the speaker. When he came down from the podium having been elected speaker, first thing I said to him is, I heard that you quoted Ronald Reagan. That was lovely. I want you to read another Ronald Reagan speech. It's the last speech he made as president of the United States, Ronald Reagan. Now you Google it because I'm not going to give the whole thing because. This is the last speech I will make as president of the United States. And I want to communicate a message to a country that I love. Goes on to say that America is preeminent in the world because our door has been open. He talks about the Statue of Liberty being the beacon of hope, drawing people to America. And because of that, we are preeminent in the world. And if we ever decide to shut the door, we will no longer be preeminent in the world. Now we have challenges with the problems that are happening in other countries. People coming. We have to we have to address that.
David Axelrod
00:46:31
Do you expect anything to come up on this, or is it now done because Trump said he doesn't want anything done before the election?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:46:38
Well, he doesn't want it done before the election. I bet he wants to solve the problem, because he wants to use it as an electoral thing. But, there is a path, you know, there's a path I see. In any event, it this is a hard crowd to deal with. And it hasn't always been this way. You know, I've worked with Republicans.
David Axelrod
00:46:55
Yeah, well, I want to ask you about that. That's a great segue. Thank you. I'll grab him when I can. When you entered Congress in 1987, it was a different place. There were battles between Republicans and Democrats, but there wasn't this sense of amnesty that exists today. What changed? What? How did this change? What are the things that are driving that sort of sense of you're not just my opponent on an issue, but you are my enemy, or at least you have to appear to be my enemy or my base will not, tolerate it?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:47:36
You really want to know?
David Axelrod
00:47:38
I wouldn't ask if I didn't.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:47:39
It might take long.
David Axelrod
00:47:40
Oh, no. Then forget about it.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:47:42
At that time.
David Axelrod
00:47:43
Just give me the short version.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:47:44
Okay. Just so you know what it is, at that time when we were there, we had differences of opinion. But in my leadership role, I had great respect for everybody there. And I always say our tapestry that we want to weave as Democrats depends on everybody being in the color and the mix in the rest. So that's from our standpoint. How we deal with the other side is more like a kaleidoscope. Like one bill, this side of the room Republicans may be against. Well, no, I'm sorry, but what one side of the room might be against the other side of the room. Then on the next bill, back half may be against the front half. It's a kaleidoscope. You just don't know. Regionally. Generationally. Just what, experience wise, what the vote will look like at that time. It's a kaleidoscope. And that's the way it was then. We would make our, count our votes on both sides of the aisle. And when we competed with each other, it was dynamic. It was intellectual. I can't wait to engage in debate on the difference of the role of government. In other words, how how significant should the federal government be in local government affairs and this or that? And it was dynamic and wonderful. And some of my best friends on the other side of the aisle, some of them, few still there, on issues that related to human rights and all of that religious freedom in the world, the Republicans have always been good on that.
David Axelrod
00:49:20
Well, we're here in John McCain's old stomping grounds. Who was the leader on that.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:49:25
Beautiful, lovely man. I worked with him. My first bill as whip was his bill, McCain Feingold. I loved him so much. And and Cindy is doing a spectacular, spectacular job. But we with him sometimes we'd be on the same side, sometimes not. But he said, keep on fighting. He would say to me, keep on fighting. But it is. So then, along in the 90s, when Bill Clinton was president, along came Newt Gingrich, and he changed the whole thing. Endless money from rich people who didn't really want to pay taxes. And that's still the source of a lot of concern that we have now. But but they, he would give them like, CDs to take home and listen in the car of you call them traitors, you call them treasonous.
David Axelrod
00:50:16
You're talking about to his member.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:50:16
To the members. That and it's sort of.
David Axelrod
00:50:19
Yeah, social media probably is not helped in this regard, as well.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:50:22
'No. And then on top of that, social media has exaggerated that. So that's when it started to change. The politics of personal destruction when they went after the, the Clintons, as you know. And then now George Bush was lovely and gracious. We just had disagreements. I mean, I fought him on the war in Iraq. I think it's the biggest destabilizing mistake our country has ever made. But nonetheless, the the difference is, are these people patriots or not? And that. You have differences of opinion, and that's correct. You, what you say, what you believe, what you know, what your experience is, what you represent, your district, your name, your job title and your job description are one in the same: representative. So of course you're going to have different points of view, and that should be respected. But this, once it stops from being a different point of view, vis-a-vis our democracy, and turns into a Putin up caucus in the Republican side, it's a different story.
David Axelrod
00:51:29
Well, you were you know, obviously you were at the center. You and not Nikki Haley were at the center of what happened on January 6th, just for anybody who was confused about that. And, and it was a terrible, terrible day. Now, 700 people or more have been convicted for their role in that incident. Donald Trump has called them hostages and said he'd pardon them if he were elected. And I just wanted to elicit a thought from you on that.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:52:00
Well, it's curious to me that the Robert Kennedy Jr. Is now saying he doesn't know if that was an insurrection. What does he not know? Does he not know that they had a noose that they were going to hang the vice president?
David Axelrod
00:52:13
They weren't that hot on you either.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:52:15
'They had. No, they were shooting me in my with an f word head. But not only that, just all the disrespect, defecating all over the floor, taking flags from the Confederacy, Confederate flags into the Capitol. Under the dome that Lincoln built. Lincoln built the dome. Have a guy walk around so proudly with an Auschwitz shirt that said 6 million Jews were not enough. This is who they call hostages. And so, look, not political. We want to be unifying and bring people together and the rest. This. It's a very sick situation. What's his name? He and Netanyahu have a lot in common about their self-preservation and the rest. But, January 6th was a terrible day. A terrible, terrible day in our country. Assaulting the Capitol. This beacon of liberty to the world. Okay. That's the building. Assaulting our Constitution. This is the day that we confirm, certify that the Electoral College vote for president of the United States. Taking that down. Taking down art, assaulting our democracy, our Constitution, our Capitol and the rest. And this guy is going off saying that they're hostages. No, they weren't hostages. They were making poo poo on my desk. They they. I don't know if that's any indication of, of, regular tourists just coming through the building. That's how they describe it. There's something really wrong there. And I say to the Republicans, take back your party. Yoou're the grand old party. You've done great things for America. The Democrats don't like me saying that all the time. But they've done great things for our country. Great leaders have emerged from the Republican Party. Patriots. We may not agree, but that's okay. And what does it turn into? A cult to whatever you want to call him. But it is really a sad thing for our country that they would do that on that day and then. Well, they. It's political too, because they know that if they confess to it being what it was, it's bad politically for them. So they're trying to turn it into a, regular tourist day at the Capitol.
David Axelrod
00:54:40
Did the Justice Department wait too long? You had hearings and and after that, the Justice Department accelerated their investigation into the role that Trump as president and others played. Did did they wait too long? Do you think we may not see a trial on January 6th until after the election.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:55:01
'I, I'll say it this way. I assumed--that word--that they were doing research, that they were doing what you do to prepare for a case. I didn't think they were ignoring it, because we present the goods, you know, presented. I was so proud of our.
David Axelrod
00:55:21
But do you, now do you think that they were. Were they, they they appoint a special counsel after all of that. Did, should they have acted sooner?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:55:28
Well, I wish that we were further along right now. I don't know that. I'm not in the Justice Department. I don't know if they were ready to go forward. The impression that people have is if we had started sooner, we'd be farther along now. Yes.
David Axelrod
00:55:47
And, look, let me just finish here.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:55:50
Was that diplomatic?
David Axelrod
00:55:51
Yes. I thought it was very artful. You mentioned, you referenced this earlier what your family went through. Your husband was attacked in your home. How's he doing, by the way?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:56:03
He's about 80%. He's he's. Okay. He's okay. But me and my, they came into our home. Where's Nancy? Where is Nancy? Coming through. Drilling through the windows. You know, not, this isn't a, oh, the door's open. I just meandered in. Drilling through the windows, glass, this or that, going through the house to the third floor to where dad was. Going in, Where's Nancy? Where's Nancy? The same thing that they were saying January 6th. Where is Nancy? Where is Nancy? My dear husband is so lovely. He's not really that political. He would never have imagined when we got married what would happen along the way. But it did, right, Nancy? And he's been a good sport, but he's not particularly political. And, he's a gentleman. And so even the Republicans say, oh, tell Paul I said hello, because he's always been nice to them.
David Axelrod
00:57:00
Yes, he's a very warm person.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:57:01
'But this is. Imagine, imagine. Now I have security at the time as speaker. Second in line to the presidency. So it's a succession thing. A lot of security, this or that. Members don't really have that. And so you're going to run for office, you're going to make sacrifices to follow your beliefs and this or that. You're going to risk your family's well-being. He was centimeter away from death. You know that, that's what the doctor said.
David Axelrod
00:57:29
How did that impact on you personally?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:57:30
I didn't even know any of that, because he would never talk about it. But that's what we read in the paper that that, I mean, we read in the news, saw on the news that the doctor said at the first trial. There's still another trial to come. It's a it's a horrible thing. Your home becomes a crime scene.
David Axelrod
00:57:48
Did you feel I mean, I don't mean to. Did you did you feel guilty about it?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:57:52
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. He came there. No, you're exactly right. No, he came there looking for me. He was going to. Oh. And then he said, she's in Washington. I just left that day to go to Washington, which, it was the night now. And, well, we're just going to wait for her here. And it's terrible. But I don't know that much about it, because he never talked about it. We don't talk about it. He doesn't want us, and the doctors don't want him reliving it. Except what they said in the trial about the centimeter. No, no, I feel terribly guilty, because obviously he was there looking for me and my dear husband became the victim, and, it's a horrible thing. So that's why I say when all these groups come in the middle of the night, ringing doorbells, bell, beating drums. I'm like, wait a minute, you know, calm down. And they're doing it to a lot of elected officials.
David Axelrod
00:58:49
Would you have made a different decision about running? You'd not. You ran. You're running again now. And.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:58:56
Well, I'm running again now because we have to win this election. And I have. And that's just the way it is.
David Axelrod
00:59:01
Yeah. But did that affect your thinking at all? Was there ever a point where you said, you know what my. I've had, my family's had enough. This is too much.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:59:11
Well. Yeah. I think you should really know that most families in Congress, anyway. It's a family decision. It's a sacrifice, but it's a family decision. So. No. I'm okay, because I didn't want to be speaker again. Or even leader. But I did want to stay, to be able to win this election. It's. Our whole democracy is at stake.
David Axelrod
00:59:35
As we go out. We have a lot of young people here. What gives you hope? Because I would like to see some of these young people sitting in your chair. Some of these. I'd like to see some of these young women as Speaker of the House someday, and maybe even some of these young men.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
00:59:52
Well, here's the thing. The future is yours. And I speak to young people all the time. The future is yours. And the fact that many of you want to take responsibility for it, it gives us all hope, gives us all hope.
David Axelrod
01:00:08
But a lot of the young people that I spoke with the other day, or several of them said, one young man stood up and said, you know, I look the president, I don't think he understands my life. I don't really relate to him. They don't see the connection between their concerns and politics. So what do you tell them?
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
01:00:28
Well, I say, know your power. Know your power in all of this. This is a democracy. Know your power. And when people say, how did you go from housewife to House member to House speaker? I said, don't do this unless you know why. Now your why. My why was 1 in 5 children in America goes to sleep hungry at night. 1 in 5 children in America lives in poverty. I couldn't stand that. As a mother of five myself, I couldn't stand that. So that's what motivated me to volunteer. Not to run for office or anything. But one thing led to another. So know your power. Know your why. Why do you want to do this? Do you want to save the planet? Do you want to educate people? Do you want, is it health care? What is your passion about it? And. What do you know about? So, know your vision. Know what you're talking about. Be strategic in how you team up with other people to make a difference. And I, you will be successful. You will be successful. Then when I ran, it was like, who said she could run, you know? Nobody was laying any red carpet for me. And even when I ran for leadership, it was like, who said she could run? I didn't. I wasn't waiting for you to tell me I could run. But. You poor baby. You really thought I was waiting for you? But but. And especially young women. Because we really need all of you young men, women and the rest, but the young women to know their power about all this. So know why. Be ready. Know your power. You can make anything happen in a democracy, in a democracy. And it's so necessary. You're so needed as this. Nothing is more wholesome in the whole process than the, forgive me, gentlemen, but the fuller participation of women in politics and government. Because. And I'm very proud. When I went to Congress, there were 12 Democratic women, 11 Republicans, 12 Democrat. And I said, this, you know, I was chair of the California Party, I know how to win elections. We're going to change this. We now have 94 women. Now we want more. We still want more. So. So let me just tell you one more story then.
David Axelrod
01:02:50
Cancel your afternoons.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
01:02:51
My first event, my first meeting as the, as representative of the leader of the Democrats in the House of Representatives. It's a big deal. I mean, 200 years, you know. And, so I go to the White House for the meeting with the president, and, you know that meeting, it's the leader, House and Senate, Democrat and Republican leaders and the president of the United States, sometimes the vice president. So I go to the meeting. I wasn't even apprehensive about it, because I was the top Democrat on intelligence, as the top Democrat on a certain appropriations committee. So I'd been to many meetings at the White House. I didn't even give it much of a thought to be concerned. I go in the room, the door closes, and I realize it was like, I'd never been to a meeting like this before in the White House. And, in fact, no woman had ever been to a meeting like this before in the White House. They have cabinet meetings where women are present, and that's a beautiful, wonderful, great thing. But I was there as a representative of the House Democrats. At the will of the Democrats. Not at the pleasure of the president. So it was a different story in terms of what I had to say at the table. You know, my vote counted a lot more than so. So anyway, I'm sitting there and President Bush, a darling. I mean, the Bush family, I love them. He. He's saying, welcoming, this is so great. We've, no, we, a woman here and I know we're going to hear some different things from her. And while he's speaking, I'm all of a sudden I'm getting closed in on my chair. I'm getting really closed in on my chair, and I didn't know what was happening. And then I realized. Susan B Anthony, Lucretia Mott, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and Sojouner Truth and Alice Paul were all on the chair with me. And I could hear them say, at last, we have a seat at the table. And then they were gone. And I realize, I mean, I'm standing on their shoulders, of course, we all know that. But that others are standing on mine. So here we are.
David Axelrod
01:05:20
Well, there are undoubtedly people here who will be standing on your your very, very broad shoulders, Speaker Pelosi, thank you so much.
Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi
01:05:29
Well thank you, it was my pleasure.
Outro
01:05:36
Thank you for listening to The Axe Files, brought to you by the Institute of Politics at the University of Chicago and CNN Audio. The executive producer of the show is Miriam Finder Annenberg. The show is also produced by Saralena Barry, Jeff Fox, and Hannah Grace McDonald. And special thanks to our partners at CNN, including Steve Lickteig and Haley Thomas. For more programing from the IOP, visit politics dot uChicago dot edu.
