The Meaning Behind Israel’s Latest Military Moves - Tug of War - Podcast on CNN Audio

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Tug of War

CNN reporters take us on-the-ground in Israel to document the escalating conflict and what it means for the rest of the world.

A frayed rope is about to split in two

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The Meaning Behind Israel’s Latest Military Moves
Tug of War
Apr 10, 2024

After months of fighting, the Israeli military said it has withdrawn its ground forces from Khan Younis in southern Gaza. The move follows a frank phone call between US President Joe Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu where Biden told Netanyahu he needed to take meaningful action to address the humanitarian crisis or face consequences. In this episode, CNN’s Nic Robertson examines what the military move could signal for the future of the war.

Episode Transcript
David Rind
00:00:00
'The other day, I read this incredible piece of reporting from the joint Israeli-Palestinian magazine Plus-9-7-2 and Local Call. The story is about how the Israeli military is allegedly using artificial intelligence to help identify bombing targets in Gaza. It cites six Israeli intelligence officials involved in the alleged AI program, which is called lavender. And what they told reporter Yuval Abraham was truly horrifying.
Yuval Abraham
00:00:33
So one source told me that he would spend roughly 20s before authorizing each target. And the only supervision that he needed to do was to check if the target's the machine unmarked was a male or a female.
David Rind
00:00:46
According to the reporting, the program identifies how probable it is that the targeted individuals are connected to Hamas or Islamic Jihad military wings. Problem is, Abraham says, it's not totally accurate. That means that some people would be marked as potential targets for bombing, even if they have just a loose connection or no connection at all to Hamas.
Yuval Abraham
00:01:09
And they knew that the supervision mechanism in place would not be able to find all of these mistakes.
David Rind
00:01:14
Now, the Israeli Defense Forces did not deny using AI on the battlefield, but said in the statement that, quote, contrary to claims, the IDF does not use an artificial intelligence system that identifies terrorist operatives or tries to predict whether a person is a terrorist. Information systems are merely tools for analysts in the target identification process.
Fred Pleitgen
00:01:36
The IDF says that even if AI is used, that their analysts need to conduct independent investigations to verify that targets meet certain criteria under international law. But also according to the IDF's own restrictions.
David Rind
00:01:53
Remember, though, beyond the bombs falling from the sky, there are still Israeli boots on the ground, actively engaged in fighting with Hamas, with innocent civilians caught in the middle. It's been that way for six months now. But exactly what that looks like appears to be changing.
Nic Robertson
00:02:14
The reality is that as they were withdrawing, four IDF soldiers were killed in a Hamas attack that Hamas is still able to fire rockets today.
David Rind
00:02:23
What a military pullout from southern Gaza really means for the future of the war. From CNN this is Tug of War. I'm David Rind.
00:02:36
CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is back with us. He's in Jerusalem. And so, Nick, late last week, President Biden spoke on the phone with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu after the death of those world Central kitchen workers. And he basically issued an ultimatum, you know, change the way things are going in Gaza, or we may need to adjust our support for you in the war. And since then, we've indeed seen a lot of changes from Israel. Can you catch us up on what has been happening?
Nic Robertson
00:03:05
One of the most significant changes was the expectation from the white House that, Prime Minister Netanyahu would open a border crossing to the north of Gaza. This is something the United States has been pressing for for months. And almost immediately after that call, the decision was taken and it was announced that Error's Crossing was going to open. And we were told that it would open on Sunday within 48 hours. We went down there Saturday. There was still shooting. There was still explosions and no signs of any trucks going across. And the Israeli government actually, by Monday said the logistical implications and we can't we can't open the border crossing that quickly. But they did ramp up on a Sunday and Monday and have the two sort of biggest deliveries of aid into Gaza, right over 300 trucks each day. And even the State Department has verified that on Monday there were more than 300 aid trucks going into Gaza. So a significant step up.
David Rind
00:04:06
But that's not like pre October 7th levels yet.
Nic Robertson
00:04:09
Pre October 7th would be about 450 trucks. But it was a significant increase and these were the highest numbers. So I think when you try to judge the pressure that President Biden put Prime Minister Netanyahu under, this appears to be one of the results. And another result appears to be as well, the withdrawal of the 98th Division from Honduras. They've been in there for four months. And the IDF announcing that this was marking a change in the ground operations in Gaza.
David Rind
00:04:37
How should we read a move like that, though, is that actual military success? Is that Biden pressure or is it repositioning, replenishing ahead of another military move somewhere else?
Nic Robertson
00:04:48
I think it's a number of things. It doesn't represent military success. The IDF has tried to pass it off. The government has tried to pass it off, that the soldiers did well, that they've destroyed Hamas tunnels, that they've destroyed stockpiles of weapons. The reality is that as they were withdrawing, four IDF soldiers were killed in a Hamas attack, that Hamas is still able to fire rockets out of that area and has been over the past few days. So Hamas is not gone. The IDF has not been able to, take out their senior commanders. In totality, it's a political, imperative. The Prime Minister is under pressure to make a deal to to get the hostages out. It's not clear that this will help in that way. And militarily, the soldiers in that had been in for a very long rotation, much longer probably than anticipated. Their equipment needed repair. And the IDF has said very clearly the war is not over. They keep significant forces inside Gaza, although not in Khan Yunis. And they're preparing these other troops for future operations.
David Rind
00:05:51
Does that include Rafah like, is that happening?
Nic Robertson
00:05:53
The Prime Minister says there's a date for Rafah.
Benjamin Netanyahu
00:05:56
Iof Hamas members, including Rafiq.There is no force in the world that will stop us.There are many forces that are trying to do it...
Nic Robertson
00:06:05
He's just told recruits that no, no country in the world is going to stop Israeli forces going into Rafah to get the remaining Hamas, figures and battalions that they believe are still there. Absolutely. The Prime Minister has made it very clear they're going into Rafah. That does not square with the pressure that the United States have been putting on Israel to come up with a plan to secure the civilian population around Rafah.
David Rind
00:06:34
More with Nick after the break. Welcome back to Tug of War. I'm here with CNN's Nic Robertson. When it comes to the aid crossings, like, let's be real, Israel did not reopen Erez. Out of the goodness of their hearts. Right. Like it's been six whole months. And it took this horrific strike on the World Central Kitchen to force kind of what aid groups say should have been the absolute minimum to start with. So how much do we think this is actually going to improve the situation on the ground?
Nic Robertson
00:07:14
It's not clear that it will improve or how much it may improve the situation in the north of Gaza. Remembering the errors is a crossing into the north of Gaza, and that's what makes it important, because the other crossings are in the south and it's the north that's so short of food. It's the north where an estimated 300,000 people, including children, are close to starvation.
David Rind
00:07:37
So it's like literally that proximity to the population that needs it the most. That's what.
Nic Robertson
00:07:41
Matters. That's what matters. It hasn't happened yet. And the pressure has been there for months upon months upon months. This did not happen because the Prime Minister of Israel wanted it to happen. It happened because the president of the United States wanted it to happen.
David Rind
00:07:56
You and I spoke a couple of months ago after you went into Khan Younis on an IDF embed. So I wonder, for those in Gaza who lived in onions before the war. Is there anything for them to come back to at this point?
Nic Robertson
00:08:10
It's utter destruction. We sent a cameraman who lives in Gaza into Khan Yunis on Monday to talk to people returning home, and it makes a desultory listening and reading to hear their accounts here.
Nats Man
00:08:36
Speaking Arabic
Nic Robertson
00:08:37
So many people going back to homes that have been turned to rubble to try to find a piece of clothing, to try to find missing people, to try to figure out what they do with the rest of their lives. People have spent, you know, their entire savings, spent years building, you know, a family home or businesses.
Young Girl
00:08:58
Arabic
Nic Robertson
00:08:59
At this one young girl with her little brother was on the street, they'd been home to collect a few clothes from the rubble of the building. And she said, look, we found this toy, and it just means so much to us. This little girl and our little brother, who probably was only 4 or 5 years old, and she said, this little plastic rubber toy, we found it. But it means so much to us because it reminds us of home. But that's all they have. Yet another elderly gentleman pointed to his burnt out refrigerator and washing machine and his trashed apartment that, you know, twisted concrete. So many of the houses destroyed. People have gone back to the ruins of their homes and their lives.
David Rind
00:09:45
Yeah. And to kind of add insult to injury, there was a picture that that circulated of Arabic markings on one of the walls of one of these destroyed buildings that said, Gaza is for the Jews. Thank you.
Nic Robertson
00:09:58
Thank you.
David Rind
00:10:11
Tug of War is a production of CNN Audio. This episode was produced by Paola Ortiz and me, David Rind. Our senior producer is Haley Thomas. Dan Dzula is our technical director and Steve Lickteig is the executive producer of CNN Audio. We get support from Alex Manasseri, Robert Mathers, John Dianora, Lenni Steinhart, Jamus Andrest, Nichole Pesaru and Lisa Namerow. Special thanks to Caroline Patterson, Michael Schwartz, Gul Tuysuz, and Katie Hinman. We'll be back on Friday. Talk to you then.